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Thread: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

  1. #101
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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by BooRadley View Post
    If the main issue you have is defining assault, then whether or not the victim in this was being a jackass is irrelevant. Put it this way: if an old lady was walking down the street with a sign that said "Have a nice day," and someone came and tried to yank it off her neck, choking her with the chord that it was hanging by, would that be assault? If so, then so is this.

    If not, then, while I disagree with you, I at least see your point and acknowledge it's value.

    If it's assault, then whether or not it was justified assault is the question, and we can stop arguing about the difference between a massive beatdown and what happened here, because the court cannot leave the determination of just punishment up to a mob.
    We can't divorce common sense from the application of the law. The old lady in your example isn't acting in a way that would provoke any reasonable person.

    The atheist in our case study is acting in such a way.

    This raises the bar on the definition of assault, in my opinion. The atheist is acting in a way that invites confrontation, therefore he bears some responsibility for the consequences.

    I would charge the muslim with assault if he had struck the atheist with a closed fist, or inflicted actual physical harm on him. Not as it stands.

    We can look at it another way.

    How anti-social would someone need to be to assault the old lady in your example? Bat**** crazy, pretty much.

    How anti-social would you say the muslim's actions were in comparison? Clearly, his actions are much more understandable.

    The one is clearly a danger to society, the other is arguably a rational actor.

  2. #102
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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We can't divorce common sense from the application of the law. The old lady in your example isn't acting in a way that would provoke any reasonable person.

    The atheist in our case study is acting in such a way.

    This raises the bar on the definition of assault, in my opinion. The atheist is acting in a way that invites confrontation, therefore he bears some responsibility for the consequences.

    I would charge the muslim with assault if he had struck the atheist with a closed fist, or inflicted actual physical harm on him. Not as it stands.

    We can look at it another way.

    How anti-social would someone need to be to assault the old lady in your example? Bat**** crazy, pretty much.

    How anti-social would you say the muslim's actions were in comparison? Clearly, his actions are much more understandable.

    The one is clearly a danger to society, the other is arguably a rational actor.
    Thanks, that's my point more or less. Obviously I don't think that assault is justified, but this atheist was more or less asking for trouble. So what if he has the "right" to do it? I guess the KKK has a right to go out and yell hateful messages about non-whites, but that doesn't make it respectable - and if a KKK member were to get hit, I wouldn't feel that sorry for him.

    And what gets me is that this incident is being portrayed as "persecution of atheists", when that's not what it is at all. It some stupid punk trying to piss people off and getting more than he bargained for. Just because it's legal doesn't mean that it's moral, but the mentality of these atheists is that they're exempt from any moral standards because "religious people are stupid/religion is a like/(insert lame as reason here)" - which ironically makes them much stupider and less ethical than the religious people who they think they're so much better than. They're just a new supremacist movement.
    Last edited by SLAMRAAM; 02-26-12 at 02:29 AM.

  3. #103
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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by SLAMRAAM View Post
    No the guy who killed her was one of the original members of American Atheists.
    David Roland Waters worked as a typesetter for American Atheists, he was not a founder.

    Please verify for me, you are saying that because you do not align yourself with the KKK bceause they have murdered? I do believe that whatever religious group you align yourself with you will find murderers.
    Last edited by taxigirl; 02-26-12 at 02:43 AM.

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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by SLAMRAAM View Post
    Then by that standard, Neo-Nazis are only hating "Jewish extremists" when they go around wearing Swastikas and claiming the Holocaust was a hoax.
    No that is not on point. Parading around in a costume and declaring a misconception, falsehood or beleif are not the tactics I am talking about.

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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya, replying to another View Post
    So you think its OK to grab somebody by the throat and choke him just like that? because he doesn't agree with you?
    Neither of those things happened. It appears you have fallen victim to propaganda.

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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We can't divorce common sense from the application of the law. The old lady in your example isn't acting in a way that would provoke any reasonable person.

    The atheist in our case study is acting in such a way.

    This raises the bar on the definition of assault, in my opinion. The atheist is acting in a way that invites confrontation, therefore he bears some responsibility for the consequences.

    I would charge the muslim with assault if he had struck the atheist with a closed fist, or inflicted actual physical harm on him. Not as it stands.

    We can look at it another way.

    How anti-social would someone need to be to assault the old lady in your example? Bat**** crazy, pretty much.

    How anti-social would you say the muslim's actions were in comparison? Clearly, his actions are much more understandable.

    The one is clearly a danger to society, the other is arguably a rational actor.
    The action of the assailant is either assault or not assault, regardless of the actions of the victim.

    You may say it's "justified assault", which I think would be a pretty terrible thing to say, but the decision of whether or not choking someone is assault has nothing to do with whether or not you feel the person deserved it. The assailant wasn't being threatened in any way, so it wasn't self-defence. It was just simple assault.

    Also, no, a "reasonable" person would not have assaulted the victim in this case. A reasonable person would have though "oh, my, what an asshole" and kept on walking.

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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist: Where's the outrage from the Left?

    Why was the judge so quick to condemn the atheist?

    Sure, there are moronic atheists out there that feel the need to mock the religious. I agree with the judge that atheists who do that deserve some ridicule of their own.

    However, just because you are offended by an atheist that doesn't mean you can lay your hands on him.

    Furthermore, I don't get why the judge didn't vote for the atheist. The atheist was the one who was attacked---choked. Does this set a new precedent that if I choke an theist, and the judge hearing the case agrees with me/my religion, I can get away with it?

    Perhaps we don't know enough on this issue, but from what I've seen the judge chose poorly.

  8. #108
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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist: Where's the outrage from the Left?

    I sure don't see any winners here. The athiest guy was being a provocative jerk. The Muslim fellow shouldn't have attacked him. The Judge made the wrong ruling.

    One the other hand, youtube got a few extra hits, eh?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then ...(edited

    Quote Originally Posted by BooRadley View Post
    The action of the assailant is either assault or not assault, regardless of the actions of the victim.

    You may say it's "justified assault", which I think would be a pretty terrible thing to say, but the decision of whether or not choking someone is assault has nothing to do with whether or not you feel the person deserved it. The assailant wasn't being threatened in any way, so it wasn't self-defence. It was just simple assault.

    Also, no, a "reasonable" person would not have assaulted the victim in this case. A reasonable person would have though "oh, my, what an asshole" and kept on walking.
    It wasn't assault, though.

    I've defined assault as anti-social physical contact.

    You haven't been able to come up with a consistent definition for assault.

  10. #110
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    Re: Offended Muslim chokes atheist: Where's the outrage from the Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    I sure don't see any winners here. The athiest guy was being a provocative jerk. The Muslim fellow shouldn't have attacked him. The Judge made the wrong ruling.

    One the other hand, youtube got a few extra hits, eh?
    I've never heard of anyone wearing a pregnant nun's costume during Halloween being accused of provoking someone else to attack.

    Mechanicsburg Police Officer Bryan Curtis told Pennsylvania’s WHTM-TV, “Mr. Perce has the right to do what he did that evening, and the defendant in this case was wrong in what he did in confronting him.”
    Offended Muslim chokes atheist, and then …
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    Generalizations are stupid.
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    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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