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Thread: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

  1. #21
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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    A little off-topic, but we have a chain of gas station/ truck stops in this area, and I noticed a couple of weeks ago that our local one is putting in a fill station for propane. Took me by surprise. I guess propane is getting a little more common for vehicles these days.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    A little off-topic, but we have a chain of gas station/ truck stops in this area, and I noticed a couple of weeks ago that our local one is putting in a fill station for propane. Took me by surprise. I guess propane is getting a little more common for vehicles these days.
    I haven't seen them in La. yet but there is a big public push for it. There is a sizeable minority of people who "kit" their old ff engines to accept propane and claim better mileage.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by BooRadley View Post
    Invent or discover a new process for something? That's never happened before? Seriously? There's 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms of material on/in the Earth, and you don't think we can find a way to use any of it to produce energy, except fossil fuels? And I'm delusional?
    That's not what I'm saying. I'm not speaking in absolutes. We can derive energy from all sorts of things, and that's fantastic. But alternatives to oil produce electricity, not hydrocarbons. We need hydrocarbons for all sorts of things, and the most critical of which are industrial food production and global freight. Neither of these can be powered by electricity. We can't use electricity for fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides and fungicides and then use more electricity to ship trillions of pounds of food all over the world to feed 7, 8, 9 billion people. It's not possible to store enough electrical energy for global freight, and to replace oil's role in our food production process is a fundamental impossibility. Petrochemical fertilizers literally lend carbon energy to foods that otherwise wouldn't grow where we grow them. Not in the yields we currently enjoy, anyway.

    I love alternative energies and green designs. They will help us light and heat our homes, and will even help us transport ourselves around. But the collapse of the industrial food production process and the inability to ship things all across the world means a global economic meltdown and the death of billions of people. At some point in the next century or so this simply has to happen.

    The article on which this thread is premised MAY call into question WHEN this will all go down, and might suggest that earlier predictions were alarmist in that they were inaccurately EARLY. But Peak Oil is an inevitability, and the theory that alternative energies will adequately replace oil are mythical.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 02-25-12 at 01:14 AM.

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    A while back I learned of a petition in the U.S. to demand that the government release Nicholas Tesla's papers. After he died, the CIA confiscated all of this documents and to this day they have not been released. Tesla had a solution for humanity's energy problem, but we are not being allowed to see it.

    He had already accomplished wireless energy transfer, with a model for application on a global scale. His first tower was built in the UK, but his funding was cut before he could establish a second in a neighboring township. I don't have my links anymore that talk about this, but if you watch any objective documentary on him it will tell you this info.

    My point is, the idea that we absolutely need oil is likely false. We only need oil if we continue with the growth model of economy. Otherwise, we could begin gradually supplementing what we already have with other sources. I find it hard to believe that we can send a man to the moon and have plans for a space elevator, yet we can't solve our energy problem.

    Our priorities are just messed up, that's all.
    Last edited by Temporal; 02-25-12 at 02:01 AM.

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    "We" don't need oil. "We" survived and evolved for millions of years without having harnessed it.

    But not 8 billion of us.

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by BooRadley View Post
    RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/23/peak_oil_is_dead_citigroup/




    [RIP is in the title of the article. One rule says use the title, one says RIP is reserved for dead people. Went with rule 1, hope that's right].

    Anyway, I wouldn't say it's time to drop all sustainability planning just yet, but it is good to hear that we're not on the verge of collapse. Until synthetic hydrocarbons or some other form of safe, renewable energy is developed, this is a nice buffer on available oil supplies. Plus, it takes the heat off of drilling in places like ANWAR, where the value of maintaining some of the last few pristine pieces of land is a high price to pay to get another few years of leaving the lights on without caring about it.

    Not that I don't like the idea of energy efficient hybrids, efficiently designed buildings, and well planned public transport -- all great ideas -- just that I like my fast v8 and I'm not ready to give it up to live in a tree just yet.

    Hey Boo, your link just goes to a subscription page.

    I think I'll hold off on cheering until we see our energy imports drop after recovery from the recession, and how many groundwater sources are contaminated in the process.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The planet is producing new oil everyday. I disagree that it's a finite resource.
    Good to know that if we stopped using oil today, that in a 100 million years there will be as much as we have used in the last hundred years.
    Last edited by Catawba; 02-25-12 at 03:05 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Oil exploration is still in its infancy.. Look at off shore Algeria, Shaybah, Sudan, Darfur, Yemen, Brazil, Cuba.........
    So is the world population growth unfortunately, even with all the new finds and and new drilling methods we are still getting closer to demand exceeding supply. The recession helped reduce demand, sure, but the world is not going to be in recession forever.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The recession helped reduce demand, sure, but the world is not going to be in recession forever.
    Whenever it is that global oil production has clearly and certainly begun its decline, then it may indeed seem as though the world has entered an endless recession. When every year you have less energy (read: insanely more expensive energy) with which to do your business, it will be bad. So bad, in fact, that we will probably just have a global war about it. That's the equivalent of "ripping the bandaid off," as human population is concerned. Whether we have currency and global financial collapses or energy decline that breaks apart the system, the manifestation of that will be war and/or anarchy. It won't just be protests for better paying jobs. It'll be ape**** craziness.

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    Re: RIP: Peak Oil - we won't be running out any time soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Whenever it is that global oil production has clearly and certainly begun its decline, then it may indeed seem as though the world has entered an endless recession. When every year you have less energy (read: insanely more expensive energy) with which to do your business, it will be bad. So bad, in fact, that we will probably just have a global war about it. That's the equivalent of "ripping the bandaid off," as human population is concerned. Whether we have currency and global financial collapses or energy decline that breaks apart the system, the manifestation of that will be war and/or anarchy. It won't just be protests for better paying jobs. It'll be ape**** craziness.
    Good point!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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