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Thread: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

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    OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    though, i mean, with the boss himself on both sides of the issue, who can really blame him?
    Testifying before Congress this morning, President Obama's acting budget director Jeffrey Zients directly undercut one of the administration's key legal defenses of its national health care law as it nears a hearing before the Supreme Court. In a hearing of the House Budget Committee Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., pressed Zients on whether the penalty that the health care law imposes on individuals who do not purchase health insurance constitutes a tax. Eventually, Zients said it did not. But this directly contradicts one of the arguments the Obama administration is making before the Supreme Court in defense of the health care law, which is that the mandate is Constitutional because it's a tax and government has taxing power. This has always been a tricky argument for the Obama administration, because admitting that the mandate is a tax means that Obama violated his pledge not to raise taxes on those earning less than $250,000. In September 2009, Obama told ABC's George Stephanapoulos that the mandate was not a tax. But by the following June, his administration was arguing in court that it was. Now the administration is making both arguments simultaneously. Before Congress, Zients is arguing that it is not a tax. But before the Supreme Court next month, the administration will argue that it is, in fact, a tax....


    As I recall, at least one of the Strike Down rulings was on this very issue, with the Judge claiming it had been sold under false pretenses, and you cannot later go back and claim Oh Well Now It's A Tax.
    Last edited by cpwill; 02-15-12 at 05:59 PM.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Obviously it isn't a tax, but it is equivalent to one. Except that everyone gets an exemption, except for those who can afford health insurance but refuse to buy it.

    I ever recall hearing Obama describe it as a tax.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Obviously it isn't a tax, but it is equivalent to one. Except that everyone gets an exemption, except for those who can afford health insurance but refuse to buy it.

    I ever recall hearing Obama describe it as a tax.
    Ambiguous, please clarify.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Typo, sorry. I don't recall ever hearing Obama describe it as a tax. If it was, however, it would not violate his pledge, as it would only fall on those who failed to follow the law.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Typo, sorry. I don't recall ever hearing Obama describe it as a tax. If it was, however, it would not violate his pledge, as it would only fall on those who failed to follow the law.
    That was not the line that was confusing but whatever. I don’t think BHO ever described it as a tax as the talking heads would be ALL OVER IT considering the link in the OP. I don’t see how this does not violate his pledge. If someone who makes less than $250k/yr doesn’t purchase HC insurance he will be taxed/fined hence raising their taxes.

    At issue is whether it is ‘taxed’ or ‘fined’. I believe them pressing for ‘fined’ under the commerce clause will be an overreach. Arguing it to be a ‘tax’, pledge or not, compliant with the 16th amendment would seem to be a stronger argument. Ultimately I don’t feel the protection of BHO’s ‘pledge’ has much rationality as it is typical for a POL to break a pledge. People historically get over it.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    That was not the line that was confusing but whatever. I don’t think BHO ever described it as a tax as the talking heads would be ALL OVER IT considering the link in the OP. I don’t see how this does not violate his pledge. If someone who makes less than $250k/yr doesn’t purchase HC insurance he will be taxed/fined hence raising their taxes.

    At issue is whether it is ‘taxed’ or ‘fined’. I believe them pressing for ‘fined’ under the commerce clause will be an overreach. Arguing it to be a ‘tax’, pledge or not, compliant with the 16th amendment would seem to be a stronger argument. Ultimately I don’t feel the protection of BHO’s ‘pledge’ has much rationality as it is typical for a POL to break a pledge. People historically get over it.
    I don't think he was making a pledge that no one would be fined if they violated the tax laws.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    though, i mean, with the boss himself on both sides of the issue, who can really blame him?



    As I recall, at least one of the Strike Down rulings was on this very issue, with the Judge claiming it had been sold under false pretenses, and you cannot later go back and claim Oh Well Now It's A Tax.
    As usual, the Beltway Confidential did not let facts get in the way of their story. In point of fact in the brief the White House sent to SCOTUS, they call the penalty a tax: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...2-11-Filed.pdf

    iN ADDITION TO THOSE INCENTIVES THROUGH TAX AND OTHER SUBSIDIES TO PURCHASE HEALTH INSURANCE, ¢ONGRESS ASSIGNED ADVERSE TAX CONSEQUENCES TO THE ALTERNATIVE OF ATTEMPTED SELF-INSURING. CONGRESS PROVIDED THAT, BEGINNING IN 2014, NON-EXEMPTED FEDERAL INCOME TAXPAYERS WHO FAIL TO MAINTAIN A MINIMUM LEVEL OF HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR THEMSELVES OR THEIR DEPENDENTS WILL OWE A TAX PENALTY
    People who believe the Examiner and especially the Beltway Confidential deserve to be deceived as they are.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I don't think he was making a pledge that no one would be fined if they violated the tax laws.
    Nice #5 Falsche Prämissen.

    Let me try it. I don’t either.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Obama is trying to have it both ways, he tells the American people he won't tax them while at the same time telling the supremes he has the power to do this because it's a tax and he can tax. Amazing so many fall for this guys BS.

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    Re: OMB Director Undercuts Legal Case for Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    As usual, the Beltway Confidential did not let facts get in the way of their story. In point of fact in the brief the White House sent to SCOTUS, they call the penalty a tax: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...2-11-Filed.pdf



    People who believe the Examiner and especially the Beltway Confidential deserve to be deceived as they are.
    You use Huffpo as a source and deride people for being willingly deceived? That's like using WND for a birther claim.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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