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Thread: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It is worth noting that the type of individual who would make pompous pontifications such as this is most likely as removed as far as possible from the individuals who need help and stand the most to lose from austerity programs. It is like the French nobility covering their powdered noses with perfumed handkerchiefs so they will not have to smell the body odor of the riffraff while on the streets of Paris.
    It's worth noting that the type of individual who would make pontifications such as this are taking responsibility for themselves, and aren't so stupid as to believe that the government can keep disincentivizing the productive forever, without a backlash. I am certainly not *nobility*, and I have worked my ass off for the past 38 years, and paid through the ass in taxes, while our government pisses the monies it collects from people like myself, into the wind.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Having a society where the needy are taken care of and the weak are not allowed to starve and die in the streets is among the hallmarks of being a responsible citizen.


    Having a society where people don't have more children than they can pay for, and meet their own needs by understanding that there is no free lunch, are the hallmarks of being responsible citizens.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The social contract is the one you give your approval each and every day your behind keeps its presence here and does not leave elsewhere when you damn well know the rules.

    There is no such thing as LIBERTY. It is a hollow and empty cliche which is a joke in the modern world...
    The social contract is not a contract. It's the made up term people like you try to use as a claim to others' property.

    You are saying liberty does not exist, and yet the "social contract" is supposedly some real thing that you can reference whenever you want to argue that more of people's property is owed to someone else.

    Liberty does exist, haymarket. I have the liberty to do ALL sorts of things of which you may or may not approve, and you can complain and whine and protest all day long that you don't have absolute control over my life (or finances). I can wake up tomorrow morning and ferment alcoholic drinks for my own consumption, grow food in my yard, withdraw some cash and go purchase more ammunition for my firearms. I have the liberty to invest up to $16,500 of my pre-tax annual income, kicking my tax burden 30 years down the road to when I retire. All that money I'm saving away for myself... man just think of it. All those needy people out there today who would benefit from your bleeding heart Big Government schemes... and I'm just stashing it away, all for myself (until Uncle Sam taps me when I cash it in, of course). I have the liberty to be just as greedy and selfish and heartless and classist and sexist and racist as I want to, and not give a hot coil about the suffering people out there. I have the liberty to be that way, and I don't have to move out of the country if the way I am disagrees with your "social contract" sensibilities.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 02-12-12 at 01:15 AM.

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I can see myself not spending a great deal of time in the future responding to your posts.
    I imagine it is tough trying to get your self imposed belief system across to a non-believer.

    Neomalthusian - you have limited liberty. Nobody who lives in a society of 311 million other people under the laws of our nation has complete LIBERTY - no matter how it is defined by them to pretend otherwise.

    You totally are misunderstanding and misinterpreting the meaning of the social contract. This will help

    http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html#contract
    Last edited by haymarket; 02-12-12 at 03:53 AM.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It's worth noting that the type of individual who would make pontifications such as this are taking responsibility for themselves, and aren't so stupid as to believe that the government can keep disincentivizing the productive forever, without a backlash. I am certainly not *nobility*, and I have worked my ass off for the past 38 years, and paid through the ass in taxes, while our government pisses the monies it collects from people like myself, into the wind.
    Charles Caleb Colton proclaimed that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

    Thanks for the compliment.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    By mentioning OWS you try to associate the homeless tent cities as a problem created by OWS.. not true.
    No, I didn't -- and if you knew a tenth as much about the US and its culture as you think you do, you'd know what I meant by it.


    Also it is nation wide, you learn to read. It is from New Jersey to Texas to Oregon to California and everywhere in between.
    There have always been homeless in every city, nationwide, and there always will be. This is not new, nor does it represent a massive wave. Nor are these "tent cities" prominent, large, or in any way significant. They are a tiny, albeit different, manifestation of a very normal situation.

    "Societal collapse." Only in your fevered wishful thinking. You see what you want to see because you loathe the United States. It's as simple as that.
    Last edited by Harshaw; 02-12-12 at 12:15 PM.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Neomalthusian - you have limited liberty. Nobody who lives in a society of 311 million other people under the laws of our nation has complete LIBERTY - no matter how it is defined by them to pretend otherwise.
    So liberty does exist, or it doesn't? At first you said it doesn't. I guess you should've specified 'absolute liberty' and then I might not have responded.

    You totally are misunderstanding and misinterpreting the meaning of the social contract.
    If the social contract is above conservative criticisms and just points back to our Constitution, then the same social contract is wielded by conservatives in support of their arguments. They just apply their own interpretation of what the contract is and says and means and tell those who disagree that they're free to leave the country. Same way you're doing. In fact many conservatives do employ these same arguments. They just haven't coined the term 'social contract' as their own.

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is far more societal collapse in the US than there is in 99% of European countries.. Greece being the odd one out. We dont have tent cities of newley evicted homeless families in every major city, although our homeless numbers have risen as it always does during economic crisis.
    Before I even address this response I would like to see proof of it first.
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    All of our government's revenue does NOT come from income taxes.

    And with the government's excessive spending habits- we have plenty of proof to show that even if 100% of people paid 100% of taxes then we'd still be belly up because our governmet has spent in excess of revenue for decades. It's how they function.
    Like it or not, taxes have gone down and down in the US and spending gone up even faster. Anyone with a first grade maths class can see what the problems are.

    Like it or not I did not say income taxes, I said TAXES. A large portion of the government income comes from income taxes, and denying that is idiotic but of course it is not the sole aspect of government income. Does not change the fact that pretty much every aspect of income has been going down or standing still when it comes to government in the US, where as spending has gone up and up... and it does not matter which side had power.

    Now I understand the principle of adjusting your spending according to your income, but that is fine for the kitchen table economics but in the real world government financing, income can also be adjusted. Hence the idea of cutting till it meets income without looking at the income factor is a short sighted and frankly dangerous thing when we are talking about a country, which is why a cut only austerity is mind boggling dangerous.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    Before I even address this response I would like to see proof of it first.
    When I see proof of the societal collapse in Europe then I will provide proof of it in the US.. and no, Greeks rioting over something aint proof, they do that all the time even before the crisis.
    PeteEU

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