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Thread: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Perhaps you're right. I still don't think that the states formed their compact so that the union could take care of their indigent. They were and are perfectly capable of performing this function on their own. To me (and that means IN MY OPINION) this responsibility is better handled by individuals in the community, local government, or state government.
    Okay.


    I see nothing wrong with any level of government that wants to help doing just that. History shows that local and state governments simply were NOT doing that task very well in our past.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Okay.


    I see nothing wrong with any level of government that wants to help doing just that. History shows that local and state governments simply were NOT doing that task very well in our past.
    Government can only help if it first violates the rights and confiscates the wealth of others. We live in a free society, where the primary role of the state is to secure the rights and liberties of that free people. A state cannot be both a judge, divider, and redistributor of individual property while securing that property at the same time. It cannot do both.
    Last edited by Fletch; 02-11-12 at 02:30 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Government can only help if it first violates the rights and confiscates the wealth of others. We live in a free society, where the primary role of the state is to secure the rights and liberties of that free people. A state cannot be both a judge, divider, and redistributor of individual property while securing that property at the same time. It cannot do both.
    Which is why we have different branches that are assigned to do that task - and limited in power and given permission which keep the others in check (and so on)

    We're not 'free' from government - we're 'free' from other governments.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Government can only help if it first violates the rights and confiscates the wealth of others. We live in a free society, where the primary role of the state is to secure the rights and liberties of that free people. A state cannot be both a judge, divider, and redistributor of individual property while securing that property at the same time. It cannot do both.
    Agreed. It can not both protect your property while at the same time take your property to give to another. Those are two mutually exclusive acts.

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    Which is what we are seeing in Europe now, with the removal of more government expenditures there is a direct correlation to that societal chaos increasing.
    There is far more societal collapse in the US than there is in 99% of European countries.. Greece being the odd one out. We dont have tent cities of newley evicted homeless families in every major city, although our homeless numbers have risen as it always does during economic crisis.

    While it is bad in Greece, you all have to understand one thing. The Greek healthcare system was never even before the crisis,.. at the top of the European universal healthcare systems. It was like most of Greek society plagued by corruption.. making it far more like the American system.. aka a pay system than the "free" system most Europeans are use too. It was the perfect libitarian system.. universal healthcare on paper, but in reality it was only those with money who got the good and immediate care. This system has now fallen in large part apart since the rich are leaving since they risk arrest for tax evasion, and the rest have lost all their income due to an overall 33% slash of wages and pensions (and worse).

    As for superbugs.. They are in all hospital systems. You dont hear about them that much in the US, not because they are not there, but because the hospitals are private and dont go reporting negative things unless they are required too.. that is why the myth of no waiting times in US hospitals exists.. That is very different in Europe, where we actually demand certain standards of reporting from our hospitals, private and public. And super bugs are a problem everywhere and it comes down to cleaning of hospitals and the overuse of penicillin by doctors and the over all health of the population. Countries with poor health of the population.. Russia for example, have huge problems, where as countries in Scandinavia and Spain have relatively less of a problem (but it still exists).

    And the argument that it is because of less nurses is hogwash. The US has one of the lowest nurses per capita numbers in the industrialised world, and by this analogy the super bug problem should be out of control there.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Okay.


    I see nothing wrong with any level of government that wants to help doing just that. History shows that local and state governments simply were NOT doing that task very well in our past.
    I think that the federal government oversteps it proper function when it begins concerning itself with the internal affairs of my state. But that's just me. I'm a decentralist. I like the decisions that effect me to be made in my community by people I know and who know me. I don't think it is effective or appropriate for the federal government, which is to say people from other states, to be taking care of the indigent in my community and state.

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    The Greek government made its bed. Now it has to lie in it. Even then, it does not matter who is responsible for the crises or why it happened. The Greek government literally cannot continue their current fiscal policy without total collapse. It needs to cut back. This is not a matter of left vs right or differing economic schools of thought. It is a matter of basic counting.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    There is far more societal collapse in the US than there is in 99% of European countries.. Greece being the odd one out. We dont have tent cities of newley evicted homeless families in every major city, although our homeless numbers have risen as it always does during economic crisis.
    Heheheheheh.

    Classic PeteEU.

    The only "tent cities" are those of the "Occupy" crowd.
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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Heheheheheh.

    Classic PeteEU.

    The only "tent cities" are those of the "Occupy" crowd.
    Yea be in denial.

    Economic Woes Lead To Proliferation Of Tent Cities Nationwide | Fox News

    America's city of broken dreams: 50 jobless and destitute people set up forest community on New York's doorstep | Mail Online

    Got more that go back to 2008 as well if you want them.

    They are real, very real and blaming the OWS movement is low, disgusting and pathetic denial.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Austerity leads to higher death rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yea be in denial.

    Economic Woes Lead To Proliferation Of Tent Cities Nationwide | Fox News

    America's city of broken dreams: 50 jobless and destitute people set up forest community on New York's doorstep | Mail Online

    Got more that go back to 2008 as well if you want them.

    They are real, very real and blaming the OWS movement is low, disgusting and pathetic denial.


    It's not "denial," but it IS amusement at you latching onto something which is a tiny anomaly as though it's a vast norm across the nation. You're a well-established US-basher and that's how you think. I do find it entertaining.

    I didn't "blame" OWS. Learn to read. Oh, and to try to present yourself as some kind of champion of the downtrodden here is what's "pathetic."
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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