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Thread: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

  1. #81
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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And yes, even if you follow the law you have a lot to worry about these laws. This very website could be shutdown because of these laws. Someone who posts a video on youtube, and has music in the background could be put in jail for 5 years. Everyone should worry about these draconian laws, the government has no right to do what these laws propose.
    Total B.S. I care less if it passes. Like I said, it's redundancy. There is no need for redundancy but if it does pass, this site, or YouTube, Facebook, etc isn't going anywhere (because of the law).

    You admit that you steal the work of others. I understand your concern. I don't share it.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The real matter is though that the world has changed, you will never get rid of pirating, so the companies need to learn to live with it, and make money in this new market. There are ways, and the companies that adapt will survive, and the others wont. It's that simple.
    We will never get rid of shoplifting, rape, murder, etc either.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, it doesn't. Why would it? They aren't losing a dime.


    Shoplifting and downloading copies of music are two completely different beasts. A proper comparison would be if someone could copy a handbag in a store infinitely and then share those copies for free. It seems like you don't really understand what illegal downloading is if you think it's comparable to shoplifting.
    It's theft. There is no need for me to continually repeat that.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    What this law does is give government the power to shut the web down.
    They already do. They've shut down sites.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If by "any of this" you mean the proposed digital IP protection laws you are incorrect. While I admit to piracy on an extremely small scale (long before the Internet) I haven't done it for decades. That doesn't mean I don't have worries and concerns about these proposed laws. What you're saying is the same as saying, "If you never speak out against Uncle Sam then you have no worries about the First Amendment" or a cop saying "If you didn't commit the crime then you have no worries about our taking your fingerprints and DNA". That's rubbish. SOPA, PIPA, and now ACTA (at least what little I've been able to research) all infringe to some extent or other into what Internet users consider their Right to Privacy.
    I read up to here. There is no privacy right to steal.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Thank you for providing a study. Most people gasp at the prospect of evidence supported debate. In any case, the study is based on quite a few risky assumptions to come to its conclusion, a conclusion that is less than convincing:

    Our cross-section regression confirms their fear: we find that music downloading could have caused a 10% reduction in CD sales worldwide in 2001.
    Could have? Hmm....

    It also goes on to say:
    Besides, there are reasons to believe that the music industry might actually benefit from digital distribution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    What makes you think that everyone who pirates wouldn't have paid if they couldn't get it by piracy? Where's YOUR proof?
    I never said that everyone who pirates wouldn't have paid. I asked for proof of people who have made claims.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Just look at Valve, and steam, they are making record profits off of Steam, because of the good will the company has, and the ease of the service. People would rather get their games legally from Steam, because it's easier than getting them illegally.
    So true, entertainment and media corporations need to wise up to this new trend. This goes for movies, TV, video games, music, etc.

    Oh and I forgot sports game broadcasts. I would totally pay for league pass broadband instead of getting illegal pirated streams if these ****ers didn't black out my Wizards home games because Comcast sportsnet has exclusive broadcasting rights
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-29-12 at 08:49 PM.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    It's theft. There is no need for me to continually repeat that.
    You're right, there isn't any reason for you to keep repeating that since that isn't the point of contention. When you figure out what it is and why illegal downloading and shoplifting are not analogous in the context of this discussion, get back to me.

  9. #89
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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Thank you for providing a study. Most people gasp at the prospect of evidence supported debate. In any case, the study is based on quite a few risky assumptions to come to its conclusion, a conclusion that is less than convincing:

    Could have? Hmm....
    Considering the difficulty in extracting precise data, it's a reasonable estimation.

    Here's an abstract of another:

    Measuring the Effect of Online Music Piracy on Music Sales | Mendeley

    Which says:

    The results suggest that, for the group of users of peer-to- peer systems, piracy reduces the probability of buying music by 35% to 65%. Based on my estimates, back of the envelope calculations indicate that online music piracy may explain a drop in music sales of 7.8% to 14.5%. Using the number of internet users by country as a measure of users of P2P systems, the panel of aggregate data shows a larger impact of piracy on music sales.
    Now:

    It also goes on to say:
    So? Wasn't the question.

    I never said that everyone who pirates wouldn't have paid. I asked for proof of people who have made claims.
    Well, you asked that question of someone who didn't make that particular claim, so . . .

    In any case, you did say:

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    What is your point? Obviously you can't sell pirated copies because Rolexes can't be downloaded, copied and shared over the internet while the original Rolex stays intact and with its owner. My point was that pirated music, etc. would only affect people if those who stole the music, etc. would have paid for it had they not had access to the pirated versions. If they wouldn't have paid for it, then nobody lost any money.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Really? Do you have some kind of report to back this up? And also, do you have proof that people who 'steal' music, etc. would have bought the products if they weren't available to 'steal'?
    So, it appears to be the crux of your argumentation here.

    In any case, in the abstract above, it also says:

    In the micro-data, a simple comparison of means shows that people who regularly download music online are more likely to buy music.
    "Download" meaning the P2P/Napster/Kazaa crowd. Thus, they probably would have paid if they couldn't have gotten it by piracy.

    Given all that, do you want to take an actual position?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    People paying for Megaupload, at the most, shows that people know they can get more movies and television shows for their money. (in other words, it makes them even cheaper) It doesn't show that they would pay full price for them if illegal downloading and streaming were not available.

    I never said the files didn't have any value. I questioned whether or not people would pay for them if they weren't available illegally.
    (edited for relevance & space)
    What this whole thing is about, as I tried to illustrate with my joke, is price. If people would pay $0.01 for a copy of a movie and didn't even pay that much to the owner then it's theft, plain and simple. It doesn't matter whether they would have paid $15 or $100, just that they would have paid any amount at all. You've just shown they obviously would pay - they just don't want to pay the price being asked. That's still theft. The owner could have made money had the illegal download not taken place.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I read up to here. There is no privacy right to steal.
    I never said there was - maybe you should have kept reading. The Right to Privacy should have nothing to do with piracy and it's a shame these Acts make it so. (Privacy and piracy are different words - maybe that's what's hanging you up?)

    It's not my ISP or the government's business to know what I am and am not viewing, downloading, uploading, etc. on the Net. ISP's do not currently monitor that information nor should they. However, SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA would all require them to do so. I for one don't want Big Brother or any of his minions listening in on my conversations, do you? Do you honestly not care that you are monitored electronically? Would you not be outraged to find an electronic bug in your house - put there, of course, in the name of law enforcement? If you don't care about your Right to Privacy then maybe you should install a webcam in your bedroom. From what I've seen, many people will pay good money to watch video feeds like that.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-30-12 at 05:43 AM.

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