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Thread: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    People are constantly reminded of the Black Hats and their illegal activities but seldom consider the White Hats who are just as smart. Cory Doctorow and David Gewirtz (both of whom make a large part of their living off digital IP) have covered Internet IP laws in various videos, speeches, & blogs and always conclude it's virtually impossible to slow down pirating for more than a few days because it's too easy to circumvent new obstacles. But after those few days the new and useless obstacles still remain in place slowing down or infringing on other activity on the Net. If Internet IP protection had a good solution don't you think all the Internet geeks out there that make money off digital IP would have already figured a way to stop it?

    No, and you don't have any proof they wouldn't have. In fact, in the case of the people who paid Megaupload for an increase in download speed, they did pay for the files. This is not a victim-less crime.

    However, I completely agree with the rest of your opinion. People who have no knowledge of the Internet and/or are too narrow-minded about their own agenda to the determent of others have no business writing bills/treaties/agreements like these.
    You know, I would like to dare somebody in government to shut down the web.

    Another aspect of all this that has yet to be talked about is the shift of entertainment away from old media sources and towards the internet.

    Growing up, the means of entertainment was very compartmentalized and very isolated. That is we had to watch television, or listen to radio, or read newspapers and magazines, or watch video tapes, or listen to tapes or CDs, or play video games. And all that was done with very little feedback from consumers to the entertainment companies.

    But now that I have the internet in my house I can be entertained by all the things out there. I can be entertained by watching home videos on YouTube. I can be entertained by reading people's personal blogs. I can be entertained by playing java games. I can be entertained listening to podcasts. I can be entertained talking to other people on forums such as this one.

    So now those big entertainment companies don't have the lock on the entertainment industry that they used to have. So instead of paying them to provide me with entertainment people can entertain each other by their mere interaction for free.

    Which means that nowadays the internet is our modern source of bread and circuses, which the people get from Amazon and YouTube.

    And if the government cuts off that access to entertainment and interaction the mob is going to get awfully restless and awfully angry. And since they are no longer kept in line, they'll get off their butts and do something about it. And it won't be pretty.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Just look at Valve, and steam, they are making record profits off of Steam, because of the good will the company has, and the ease of the service. People would rather get their games legally from Steam, because it's easier than getting them illegally.
    I think good will and respect are things a lot people take for granted. Earning the respect of the consumer makes people want to spend their money and support your business. When businesses or other institutions piss people off, the goodwill goes out the window and people don't want to help you out anymore. Supporting bills like SOPA and this treaty have that effect. I think a good example of that is GoDaddy. They lost a lot of business after the CEO supported SOPA (he doesn't anymore). That's why I found it funny when 1Perry thought that making people mad was a good thing. It's definitely not.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    And yet, they aren't. Look in this thread. The complaints that iTunes are still too expensive are there. In the end if you want to buy the music you want, you have no worries about any of this.
    If by "any of this" you mean the proposed digital IP protection laws you are incorrect. While I admit to piracy on an extremely small scale (long before the Internet) I haven't done it for decades. That doesn't mean I don't have worries and concerns about these proposed laws. What you're saying is the same as saying, "If you never speak out against Uncle Sam then you have no worries about the First Amendment" or a cop saying "If you didn't commit the crime then you have no worries about our taking your fingerprints and DNA". That's rubbish. SOPA, PIPA, and now ACTA (at least what little I've been able to research) all infringe to some extent or other into what Internet users consider their Right to Privacy. (I say it that way because, so far, few laws have been written on the subject in this particular regard.) These Acts also infringe on normal Internet business, even existing laws do this to some extent. Consider all the legitimate users/clients of Magaupload who have (legal) files that are now in Electronic Limbo, unable to access what could easily be their self-created digital intellectual property. Yes, I have plenty of reasons to worry and I'm no pirate!

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    You know, I would like to dare somebody in government to shut down the web.
    They won't. They have just as big a stake in it as anybody.

    I don't deny the business model is bad and time will resolve that issue because those companies either won't be here in another decade or they will have adapted. But I don't buy that theory as justification for piracy, either. Piracy is wrong, plain and simple. Implementing restrictive and/or invasive laws to stop it is also wrong, plain and simple. In many people's opinion, maybe even the majority, some IP laws are wrong and I won't argue that, either. There are plenty of signs that things need to change. Doing so without capsizing the boat is the challenge.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-29-12 at 10:47 AM.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    No, and you don't have any proof they wouldn't have. In fact, in the case of the people who paid Megaupload for an increase in download speed, they did pay for the files. This is not a victim-less crime.
    I never said it wasn't victim-less. I'm questioning the claim that it is. You say it is. Where is your proof? Where is your proof that people would have bought it legally had it not been available illegally? At this point, saying "it's not a victim-less crime" is just an empty claim.

    However, I completely agree with the rest of your opinion. People who have no knowledge of the Internet and/or are too narrow-minded about their own agenda to the determent of others have no business writing bills/treaties/agreements like these.
    Completely agree. I think a big part of the problem is just general ignorance about how the Internet works. Obviously, some people who make these treaties have other (usually money based) interests as well, but there's also an element of them not fully understanding the implications of the agreements that they are sponsoring.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I think good will and respect are things a lot people take for granted. Earning the respect of the consumer makes people want to spend their money and support your business. When businesses or other institutions piss people off, the goodwill goes out the window and people don't want to help you out anymore. Supporting bills like SOPA and this treaty have that effect. I think a good example of that is GoDaddy. They lost a lot of business after the CEO supported SOPA (he doesn't anymore). That's why I found it funny when 1Perry thought that making people mad was a good thing. It's definitely not.
    Exactly, there are a lot of companies that I respect, and want to give my business too, and some companies I don't want too. I have friends who aren't going to movies right now because of the MPAA support of SOPA. Good will goes a long way.
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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I never said it wasn't victim-less. I'm questioning the claim that it is. You say it is. Where is your proof? Where is your proof that people would have bought it legally had it not been available illegally?
    I believe that was included in the part of my post you quoted. Let me re-quote that for you:
    In fact, in the case of the people who paid Megaupload for an increase in download speed, they did pay for the files.
    If the files had no value why did they pay to download them?


    Joke I heard long ago:
    A man in a bar strikes up a conversation with a good looking woman. After several hours and drinks he asks her, "Would you go to bed with me for a million dollars?"
    The woman laughs and says, "Of couse!"
    The man then says, "How about $10?"
    The woman slaps him and says, "What do you think I am?"
    The man says, "We've already determined that, we're just discussing price!"
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-29-12 at 11:35 AM.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Really? Do you have some kind of report to back this up? And also, do you have proof that people who 'steal' music, etc. would have bought the products if they weren't available to 'steal'?
    Ahh the old cop out of "I wouldn't have gotten it if I had to pay for it so it's not like there is any money lost" rationalization for stealing. Sickening.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Ahh the old cop out of "I wouldn't have gotten it if I had to pay for it so it's not like there is any money lost" rationalization for stealing. Sickening.
    I asked you if you had proof to support your claim. This is not proof. Where is it?

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I believe that was included in the part of my post you quoted. Let me re-quote that for you:
    How is paying a small fee for a higher level of access to megaupload proof that people would have paid for files legally if they were not available legally? People paying for Megaupload, at the most, shows that people know they can get more movies and television shows for their money. It doesn't show that they would pay full price for them if illegal downloading and streaming were not available.

    If the files had no value why did they pay to download them?
    I never said the files didn't have any value. I questioned whether or not people would pay for them if they weren't available illegally. I discussed most of my point above, but the other problem with using paid megaupload accounts as proof is that it doesn't take into account what non-illegal things people acquired an account for.

    Joke I heard long ago:
    A man in a bar strikes up a conversation with a good looking woman. After several hours and drinks he asks her, "Would you go to bed with me for a million dollars?"
    The woman laughs and says, "Of couse!"
    The man then says, "How about $10?"
    The woman slaps him and says, "What do you think I am?"
    The man says, "We've already determined that, we're just discussing price!"
    Ha! That's funny.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I asked you if you had proof to support your claim. This is not proof. Where is it?
    http://www.serci.org/2004/waelbroeck.pdf

    What makes you think that everyone who pirates wouldn't have paid if they couldn't get it by piracy? Where's YOUR proof?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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