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Thread: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    It's theft. There is no need for me to continually repeat that.
    Copying something is not taking the property of someone else.If you copy something the owner still has his property.Just like if I go to a store,see a table I like and go home and produce a copy of it.No one was deprived of their property. Your definition of theft is wrong.

    Theft | Define Theft at Dictionary.com
    1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Copying something is not taking the property of someone else.If you copy something the owner still has his property.Just like if I go to a store,see a table I like and go home and produce a copy of it.No one was deprived of their property. Your definition of theft is wrong.

    Theft | Define Theft at Dictionary.com
    1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession
    Let's look at it your way, then.

    EA releases Battlefield 3. One guy buys the first disc, takes it home, copies it, then posts it on the Net for everyone else to copy. EA loses nothing, right, since no one physically walked out with a disc they didn't pay for? They spent $1M developing Battlefield 3 but they only sold ONE game for much, much less than $1M. How long do you think it will be before there's a Battlefield 4?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-30-12 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    You're right, there isn't any reason for you to keep repeating that since that isn't the point of contention. When you figure out what it is and why illegal downloading and shoplifting are not analogous in the context of this discussion, get back to me.
    It is analogous. You've not made a single arguement that shoplifters haven't used for years.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It's not my ISP or the government's business to know what I am and am not viewing, downloading, uploading, etc. on the Net. ISP's do not currently monitor that information nor should they. However, SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA would all require them to do so. I for one don't want Big Brother or any of his minions listening in on my conversations, do you? Do you honestly not care that you are monitored electronically? Would you not be outraged to find an electronic bug in your house - put there, of course, in the name of law enforcement? If you don't care about your Right to Privacy then maybe you should install a webcam in your bedroom. From what I've seen, many people will pay good money to watch video feeds like that.
    Can I assume that you aren't a big advocate of those trying to stop child porn on the internet either then? (You made a much larger point which I'm happy to further discuss after we cover this point)
    Last edited by 1Perry; 01-30-12 at 05:37 PM.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Copyrighting thought is a truly bizarre concept to being with. "I thought of and recorded I thought of it first!" and then it is illegal for you to think it without paying that person.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Copying something is not taking the property of someone else.If you copy something the owner still has his property.Just like if I go to a store,see a table I like and go home and produce a copy of it.No one was deprived of their property. Your definition of theft is wrong.

    Theft | Define Theft at Dictionary.com
    1. criminal law the dishonest taking of property belonging to another person with the intention of depriving the owner permanently of its possession
    ^ I agree with that.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Can I assume that you aren't a big advocate of those trying to stop child porn on the internet either then? (You made a much larger point which I'm happy to further discuss after we cover this point)
    Not if they're going to invade everyone's privacy to do it - and I haven't seen any hints of that.

    Not about pornography but related:

    Sadly, child abuse happens every day in way too many homes in America. I'm sure that if every home were bugged and monitored to the extent the Fed monitors communications in and out of the US that we could catch, prosecute, and imprison a huge chunk of those child abusers. And no doubt many of the ones that weren't caught in the act would have a new incentive to stop. So, are YOU willing to sign up to have YOUR home bugged so we can catch all those child abusers out there?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 01-30-12 at 09:04 PM.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Let's look at it your way, then.

    EA releases Battlefield 3. One guy buys the first disc, takes it home, copies it, then posts it on the Net for everyone else to copy. EA loses nothing, right, since no one physically walked out with a disc they didn't pay for? They spent $1M developing Battlefield 3 but they only sold ONE game for much, much less than $1M. How long do you think it will be before there's a Battlefield 4?
    Theft is depriving someone of their property.It has nothing to do with the notion of whether or not they lose profits. The notion that every illegal downloader each equals a lost customer is ludicrous. I am sure that if twenty carpenters go to a store,see a chair they like and go home and make it there are probably a few that would have bought the chair if they didn't have any wood working skills.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 01-30-12 at 09:23 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Theft is depriving someone of their property.It has nothing to do with the notion of whether or not they lose profits. The notion that every illegal downloader equals a lost customer is ludicrous.
    If it were legal to distribute and download copies of games, software, and movies then there wouldn't BE any paying customers - at least, not enough of them to pay for development/production. To think otherwise is ludicrous.

    If someone is going to be a pirate they should just own it instead of lying to themselves about what they are.

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    Re: Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If it were legal to distribute and download copies of games, software, and movies then there wouldn't BE any paying customers - at least, not enough of them to pay for development/production. To think otherwise is ludicrous.
    Yes. because thinking in extremes like yours isn't?

    Your statement is inherently dishonest - the issue is not downloading those for free, but whether or not you, *derp* DID it WITH or WITHOUT permission of the rightsholder. Legally free software, music, videos, etc all exist - varying degrees of quality. People still buy things, people make money off their works regardless. Piracy exists, people still buy things enough where your doom and gloom proposition is itself ludicrous.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If someone is going to be a pirate they should just own it instead of lying to themselves about what they are.
    Non-sequitur?
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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