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Thread: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

  1. #11
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    Re: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    so these businesses werent in any financial trouble before the last state elections?
    you mean to say, the state was successfully keeping these businesses afloat until the tax increases were put on par with neighboring states?

    if its anything like the faciities in my area, the management was seeing increases of 6 to 10% yearly while the rest had their wages frozen. i know for sure that two of the nursing homes facilities in my area had managers that were making in excess of 150K in an area where the avg 4 person household was about 35K.

    i certainly dont defend any increase in taxation, but there is more to it more than "those damn democrats are breaking the bank by taxing businesses". this has been going on for years and yet people keep re-electing the same jerks to office.
    U of I president makes 7 figures and doesnt miss a pay raise, while discussions are being held to decide which of the teaching staff gets the boot.
    i hear cries of how there are no longer skill tradesmen and all the while schools are dropping building trades etc. to meet budget demands.

    IMO, people may be leaving the city in droves, but its because their businesses made the decision to leave them and jump the border for cheap labor.
    which bring me to a question.. why have a business in an environment where the cost of living is twice that of an hour or so down state?(referring to chicago, etc.) that alone is the first nail in the coffin.
    Dude, it isn't about the corporate tax...it's about companies that had contracts to provide services in exchange for payment. Those companies provided the service, paid their bills and employees, and waited.....and waited....and waited. Simple law of business: If you don't have income you don't survive. Nursing homes, homes for the mentally handicapped; many of them are partnerships with the state. They are to be paid through medicaid/medicare disbursements from the state, or from other state firms to provide a service to the dependent citizens. All of a sudden the disbursements stop and....then what? These companies work for free to provide expensive care?

    Don't villify business simply because that's easier for you.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    so these businesses werent in any financial trouble before the last state elections?
    you mean to say, the state was successfully keeping these businesses afloat until the tax increases were put on par with neighboring states?

    if its anything like the faciities in my area, the management was seeing increases of 6 to 10% yearly while the rest had their wages frozen. i know for sure that two of the nursing homes facilities in my area had managers that were making in excess of 150K in an area where the avg 4 person household was about 35K.

    i certainly dont defend any increase in taxation, but there is more to it more than "those damn democrats are breaking the bank by taxing businesses". this has been going on for years and yet people keep re-electing the same jerks to office.
    U of I president makes 7 figures and doesnt miss a pay raise, while discussions are being held to decide which of the teaching staff gets the boot.
    i hear cries of how there are no longer skill tradesmen and all the while schools are dropping building trades etc. to meet budget demands.

    IMO, people may be leaving the city in droves, but its because their businesses made the decision to leave them and jump the border for cheap labor.
    which bring me to a question.. why have a business in an environment where the cost of living is twice that of an hour or so down state?(referring to chicago, etc.) that alone is the first nail in the coffin.
    All I can say about the businesses I deal with is in the last year or two they were able to pass a stringent credit check in order to participate in the program I run. So what this tells me is they were in good shape up until recently. It also tells me they were very reliant on gov funding to run their business. But some of these are required to depend on that kind of funding. It wasn't so much the tax increases but the funding or payments from the state that either dried up, stopped all together, or are very late. I see tax increases effecting smaller businesses more than larger businesses due to larger ones are financially able to move from the problem. Smaller ones usually go under.

    I can not speak to the managements pay or increases in it. I do not have that info. But I do agree it is a problem. Don't even get me started on the UofI! I have serious issues with them that I can not air on this forum.

    As far as skilled trades being cut. I have to say this is a real shame as I came up through the trades to get where I am today. I worked in a Transmission shop for 9 years prior to starting my own business in the energy sector. But I also see this in two ways. I have noticed in the last 10 years or so that it is not fashionable to be a laborer. It's not cool to work on cars or fix pipes in a house. The cool thing was computers and organizers and liberal arts. I would love to see the stats of arts degree's vs professional degree's. Well maybe I wouldn't after all! Don't get me wrong there is a place for them but not everyone can use them.

    People are leaving the town I live in because of a few reason's. Jobs going away, Taxes are to high, Crime is run amok, not much say in what happens since Chicago runs the state. This is straight from the mouths of some that are leaving or have left. Since you live in the Mid Illinois Area you have had to notice some of this. I also live in Mid Illinois.

    No offense taken on your unintended jab at me blaming any certain group. I don't offend easily anyway! LOL There are many factors in whats wrong with Illinois I am more interested in finding a solution than I am at placing blame. I did hear they are redoing parts of the capitol. In fact I have a buddy who is working on parts of it. You can always bet they will keep the states property in the best of shape before they worry about the rest of us. I would say that is pretty common in about every state. You are correct that they are out of touch!

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    Re: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Don't villify business simply because that's easier for you.
    dude im villifying the management of those companies/businesses.. IMO, they took the cream from the milk and watered down the rest, then closed the businesses after the bills could no longer be paid.
    other businesses(not nursing homes.. but i suppose that too is possible) just moved from IL entirely to areas where the labor is cheaper(canada, mexico, etc.) to keep or get larger margins.(motorola, 3com, etc.)

    it was happening here there and everywhere in IL, not just the highly urban areas. again imo, management got their cake and ate it too, breaking the businesses back.

    the OP's article noted a 67% increase in corporate tax and in DR's commentary to maggie's implication the problem was democratic, he implied that payment from the state(or lack thereof) led to the demise of 15 businesses in his area. my question implied they were unable to stand on their own two feet w/o state funding.
    isnt that the sign of a failing business before it fails?(is that in the business law book youve referred to?)

    while it sounds very ominous, the 67% increase put the corporate tax rate at the same level as neighboring states. not that i think it helped in anyway, since revenue isnt the problem.(cook county has a consumption problem that doesnt match their income)
    also, there have been more than enough republican legislators in IL to be part of the problem.

    i guess on the sunny side, we're surely the #1 state in jailing crooked governors!(though it probably cost more to do so than it was worth)
    Last edited by WhyteRash; 01-26-12 at 07:50 PM.

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    Re: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    dude im villifying the management of those companies/businesses.. IMO, they took the cream from the milk and watered down the rest, then closed the businesses after the bills could no longer be paid.
    If the arguement is to not get in bed with the government, that's a valid arguement but they couldn't pay their bills because they were not paid for services rendered.

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    Re: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    If the arguement is to not get in bed with the government, that's a valid arguement but they couldn't pay their bills because they were not paid for services rendered.
    Good point! But you are right it was a case of The State owing money for work that was already done.

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    Re: Topinka: Illinois’ Unpaid Bill Crisis Just Keeps Getting Worse

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    dude im villifying the management of those companies/businesses.. IMO, they took the cream from the milk and watered down the rest, then closed the businesses after the bills could no longer be paid.
    other businesses(not nursing homes.. but i suppose that too is possible) just moved from IL entirely to areas where the labor is cheaper(canada, mexico, etc.) to keep or get larger margins.(motorola, 3com, etc.)

    it was happening here there and everywhere in IL, not just the highly urban areas. again imo, management got their cake and ate it too, breaking the businesses back.

    the OP's article noted a 67% increase in corporate tax and in DR's commentary to maggie's implication the problem was democratic, he implied that payment from the state(or lack thereof) led to the demise of 15 businesses in his area. my question implied they were unable to stand on their own two feet w/o state funding.
    isnt that the sign of a failing business before it fails?(is that in the business law book youve referred to?)

    while it sounds very ominous, the 67% increase put the corporate tax rate at the same level as neighboring states. not that i think it helped in anyway, since revenue isnt the problem.(cook county has a consumption problem that doesnt match their income)
    also, there have been more than enough republican legislators in IL to be part of the problem.

    i guess on the sunny side, we're surely the #1 state in jailing crooked governors!(though it probably cost more to do so than it was worth)
    No, youre missing the bigger picture. The reason a lot of businesses had state contracts is because they were regulated to do so. Nursing homes, health care providers, head starts, pre schools, all deal with the government because they have no other choice. The have been regulated and regulated to the point where they cannot do anything else. To then blame businesses is small picture at best.

    You are wrong about the increase btw, it put Illinois at a higher rate than almost all of their neighbors and most southern and south western states(looked it up Penn is higher at 9.99 and DC is 9.975, Ill is 9.5--number 3 effectively). If you dont think thats an impediment to attracting jobs, you haven't been paying attention.

    Lastly, Cook County is the gravity well of Illinois politics. Republicans havent had much of a say in the State budget in like 15 years since Edgar was governor. The last governor to present a a balanced budget btw. The problem is dem or republican its to stop voting for the crooked bastards from Chicago, no one comes out of that politcal machine clean. No one.

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