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U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

X Factor said:
The two things I compared was peeing on bodies and dragging them naked through the street. Do you really want me to list why I think one is worse than the other?
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Yes, because I do not see a difference. Both are desecrations of the dead. If an enemy soldier pissed on one of our troops, I would have the same pissed off reaction I would have if they dragged him through the streets.
 
X Factor said:
Yes, some of you have suggested that you're actually quicker to condemn our troops for their actions than those of the Taliban (or whoever). I am just not that way. /shrug
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Yes, because we are (supposedly) better than the enemy.
 
Redress said:
See, now I think our troops are better than the taliban. I am sorry you disagree.
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I think our troops deserve more of the benefit of our understanding than the Taliban. My support is not contingent on our troops behaving perfectly.
 
X Factor said:
I think our troops deserve more of the benefit of our understanding than the Taliban. My support is not contingent on our troops behaving perfectly.
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Condemning inappropriate actions is not being unsupportive of our troops. Nor is expecting more from our troops.
 
X Factor said:
I think our troops deserve more of the benefit of our understanding than the Taliban.
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And, once again, they deserve understanding from everyone. That's not the same as excusal or dismissal.

My support is not contingent on our troops behaving perfectly.
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Neither is "support" a synonym of "non-criticism," which is something that you're apparently having a hard time understanding. The vast majority of us support the troops either way. But when they do something wrong, we recognize that.
 
Redress said:
Yes, because I do not see a difference. Both are desecrations of the dead. If an enemy soldier pissed on one of our troops, I would have the same pissed off reaction I would have if they dragged him through the streets.
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So, your reaction to what these Marines did is exactly the same as it was when our soldiers were drug through Mogadishu (however you spell that)? I'm curious, what if these Taliban had been burried first, then our soldiers peed on the grave. Still just as bad?
 
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X Factor said:
So, your reaction to what these Marines did is exactly the same as it was when our soldiers were drug through Mogadishu (however you spell that)? I'm curious, what if these Taliban had been burried first, then our soldiers peed on the grave. Still just as bad?
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Why are you trying so hard to evade the initial question? You made a comparison. Why won't you defend that comparison?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Vietnam was a long time ago. I can't imagine people would rehash that over and over again except in history classes.
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Doesn't change a damn thing that happened there. War is war, whether the calendar says 1971 or 2011.

Apparently you don't know any Vietnam vets. I do. I had one rehash it to me in such detail he was tearing up in front of me. He would laugh at these guys getting pissed on after they were shot, vs. his guys who were mutilated while they were still alive.

You really have no clue do you?
 
X Factor said:
Yes, some of you have suggested that you're actually quicker to condemn our troops for their actions than those of the Taliban (or whoever). I am just not that way. /shrug
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Well, my mother was quicker to condemn anything my siblings and I did wrong that she was to condemn a common criminal. I assume that was because she expected more from us than them.
 
Redress said:
Yes, because I do not see a difference. Both are desecrations of the dead. If an enemy soldier pissed on one of our troops, I would have the same pissed off reaction I would have if they dragged him through the streets.
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Everyone has degrees of disgust or outrage and we as humans have the ability to attribute severity between horrific events. It's not black or white, there are many shades of gray but you're telling everyone you don't see gray.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Doesn't change a damn thing that happened there. War is war, whether the calendar says 1971 or 2011.
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No it doesn't, but it does explain why people don't condemn the Viet Cong often which is what you were talking about.

Apparently you don't know any Vietnam vets. I do.
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Actually, two of my uncles are Vietnam vets. Try harder.

I had one rehash it to me in such detail he was tearing up in front of me. He would laugh at these guys getting pissed on after they were shot, vs. his guys who were mutilated while they were still alive.

You really have no clue do you?
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You didn't address anything I said. Please do that. Actually, don't. It would be a waste of time.
 
Ockham said:
Everyone has degrees of disgust or outrage and we as humans have the ability to attribute severity between horrific events. It's not black or white, there are many shades of gray but you're telling everyone you don't see gray.
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Not exactly, no. I am saying I do not see the gray in this instance and asking why what seems black and white to me isn't. What makes the difference?
 
Redress said:
Not exactly, no. I am saying I do not see the gray in this instance and asking why what seems black and white to me isn't. What makes the difference?
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I see a difference because I do not see urinating on dead Taliban soldiers as being as offensive as hooking these dead Taliban soldiers behind a Stryker or HumVee and dragging them through Afghanistan towns and finally hanging them up on a bridge or cliff somewhere.

The question is why don't you see the difference?
 
Redress said:
Why are you trying so hard to evade the initial question? You made a comparison. Why won't you defend that comparison?
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Ok, I think it's worse to strip the bodies, inflict more damage on them and drag them around or hang them where everyone else can see them, than it is to have 4 guys pee on a body. Far worse things are going to happen to that body just by being buried in the ground.

The truth is though, I'm far less concerned with how people treat dead bodies than how they treat live people.
 
Ockham said:
I see a difference because I do not see urinating on dead Taliban soldiers as being as offensive as hooking these dead Taliban soldiers behind a Stryker or HumVee and dragging them through Afghanistan towns and finally hanging them up on a bridge or cliff somewhere.

The question is why don't you see the difference?
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Because once you desecrate the dead, you have desecrated the dead. The intent is still for all practical purposes the same(assuming that desecration is he goal).
 
I can understand the intense feelings of rage and hatred for these people who are scum. However, the army does have an honor code.

It would be similar if I hunted down murderer who escaped prison and killed him. Though there is no empathy for the murder, what I did was wrong[I think that analogy works, but if it doesn't please let me know where].
 
bicycleman said:
Then you must think it equally disgusting when Somalians dragged the naked and battered bodies of American soldiers through the streets of Mogadishu.
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Nice effort at diversion. No human being would not be disgusted by such a thing. Nor does it mean that others things don't disgust either.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't think there's more than a few posters on this thread who doesn't think the soldiers' actions were completely out of line. The argument (at least from me) comes from the adjectives used by many of them: atrocious; deplorable; sickening; et al. To call this breach of conduct atrocious is just beyond the pale, in my opinion.
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It is poor behavior, and I think for many those words apply. More over, it says a lot of things about the people who do such things, a lot about maturity as well.
 
I can't imagine what our soldiers see everyday, or how they feel. I'm sure given how nasty this war has been that at the moment they did it, they were thinking it was no big deal. BUT it's just not a smart move. Last thing they need is too add more fuel to the fire, and put themselves in more danger.
 
and of course I'm not justifying their behavior. I think it was wrong, but I'm not going to condemn them either.
 
melg89 said:
I can't imagine what our soldiers see everyday, or how they feel. I'm sure given how nasty this war has been that at the moment they did it, they were thinking it was no big deal. BUT it's just not a smart move. Last thing they need is too add more fuel to the fire, and put themselves in more danger.
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I agree. It isn't smart. And more than a little childish.

I suspect they will face discipline, and while not jail worthy, it is certainly something to call them on and hold them accountable for their actions. War is nasty business, but our humanity shoudl not be lost easily and without an effort to keep it.
 
Do you think these otherwise good soldiers should be kicked out of the military? I certainly don't. How many of you are in their boots?
 
Wake said:
Do you think these otherwise good soldiers should be kicked out of the military? I certainly don't. How many of you are in their boots?
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No. But they cannot be allowed to think what they did was OK. They should know they put a stain on otherwise honorable work, and on those who served with them. It hurt not just them, but others who serve with more restraint and maturity.
 
Wake said:
Do you think these otherwise good soldiers should be kicked out of the military? I certainly don't. How many of you are in their boots?
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Absolutely they are gone. You do not, ever, not ever, make bad publicity for your command/branch/country. You will get hung out to dry. Every single time. When we learned the 10 commandments, this was like number 2.
 
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