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U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

megaprogman said:
Yeah, the pattern is that issues are sometimes more clear from the outside in the absence of the kind of emotionality that is clouding your judgement.
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Actually, the pattern is, the folks that all hyped up about this are the very ones that not only never served in the military, but would never serve in the military and therefore are passing judgment from an uninformed position.
 
apdst said:
Actually, the pattern is, the folks that all hyped up about this are the very ones that not only never served in the military, but would never serve in the military and therefore are passing judgment from an uninformed position.
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While your self righteousness is amusing, its not a very good argument.
 
apdst said:
And, everyone on this thread, so far, that has any military experience has said that this is no big deal and everyone that has their panties in a knot and is being all judgemental, have zero military experience.

See a pattern?
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I don't give a **** what they say. Regardless of how much everyone "understands" why these soldiers did it, they are going to suffer the consequences. Deal with it.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I don't give a **** what they say. Regardless of how much everyone "understands" why these soldiers did it, they are going to suffer the consequences. Deal with it.
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Suffer the consequences? :lamo

There aren't going to be any real consequences for this. NJP...maybe!

It's amazes me how people are shocked and shaken over this nothing of a situation, yet think Bradley Manning is some kind of hero.
 
megaprogman said:
While your self righteousness is amusing, its not a very good argument.
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It's not self righteuous. It's a fact.

And, that fact is, you have no idea how you behave in the same situation. Hell, you might crap in their mouths, for all you know.

Please, save the, "oh no I wouldn't!", bull****, because you have no way of knowing how you would handle serving in battle.
 
apdst said:
It's not self righteuous. It's a fact.

And, that fact is, you have no idea how you behave in the same situation. Hell, you might crap in their mouths, for all you know.

Please, save the, "oh no I wouldn't!", bull****, because you have no way of knowing how you would handle serving in battle.
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You are right, I do not know how I would behave in such a situation, but I am man enough to not make excuses for myself for behaving badly (or at least like to think so and I hope that if I am not, someone will pick up my slack). This is the difference.

Saying "well, this was stressful and hard to do, so I did the wrong thing and was proud of it" is what a coward says.
 
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CriticalThought said:
Oh come on! This is funny! The people who are morally outraged here are those who are defending a soldier's right to piss on a Taliban corpse. They are outraged by what they percieve as outrage about this stunt. That is hilarious! To be outraged by outrage that may or may not exist. I mean...seriously...how could anyone dare question anything or show any degree of disapproval of what a soldier is doing?
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Question it. feel free. Just remember where you are doing it from.
 
megaprogman said:
You are right, I do not know how I would behave in such a situation, but I am man enough to not make excuses for myself for behaving badly (or at least like to think so and I hope that if I am not, someone will pick up my slack). This is the difference.

Saying "well, this was stressful and hard to do, so I did the wrong thing and was proud of it" is what a coward says.
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Of, so it's ok to blow their heads off with heavy weapons, but don't dare piss on them. That would be bad!!!!

Do you know how silly that sounds?

A real man would at least be consistant.
 
apdst said:
It's not self righteuous. It's a fact.

And, that fact is, you have no idea how you behave in the same situation. Hell, you might crap in their mouths, for all you know.

Please, save the, "oh no I wouldn't!", bull****, because you have no way of knowing how you would handle serving in battle.
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Meh, I feel pretty confident that I would do things in war that I wouldn't normally do. And you're right, I might crap in their mouths. I doubt it, but it's certainly possible given the mental stress that can happen. That doesn't change the fact that I think the actions described on the OP are stupid and disgusting.
 
All these arguments about how the Taliban and Al-Qaeda have done worse to Americans and their own people is a bunch of bull****. The enemy does not define our morality, nor our standards. Being on the righteous side of war means exactly that, we are better than all the time, not some of the time, not most of the time, all the time and that is the standard. That is the quality of Soldier, Sailor, Airman, and Marine that this nation deserves and by God the people should demand. Being right doesn't mean not committing a heinous act, then all is fair game, it means NEVER committing them. It means being that medic who will save the life of a Taliban fighter taken prisoner just after he killed the medic's buddy. That is the kind of quality and righteousness needed and should be demanded of the military. It's that attitude of respecting your enemy even when he does not respect you, for the simple reason that he's another human being and you are better than that, you have a high standard of action.

How can we claim to be the good guys when stuff like this is done? Certainly in the grand scheme of things we've done less horrible acts than our enemies, but that's not good enough, we won't be the "lesser evil" and call it good enough, we should always strive to be completely free of these kinds of acts. Of course it will be impossible, of course mistakes will be made, Soldiers will act in ways they should not, of course there will be situations where someone has to die in a horrible and it will be unavoidable, but that doesn't mean we should give up on that standard.

The Uniformed Code of Justice, Article 134 reads as follows:
"Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.”
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Quite clearly this action on the part of these Marines brings discredit upon the armed forces, it is a clear violation of our standards and discipline.
 
apdst said:
What unit did you serve in?
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Ohh so if you serve int he military you have the sudden urge to piss on dead corpses?
Gotcha...


So its a question now, if i served or not is it?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Meh, I feel pretty confident that I would do things in war that I wouldn't normally do. And you're right, I might crap in their mouths. I doubt it, but it's certainly possible given the mental stress that can happen. That doesn't change the fact that I think the actions described on the OP are stupid and disgusting.
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You have no way of knowing. That's the whole point.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Ohh so if you serve int he military you have the sudden urge to piss on dead corpses?
Gotcha...
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It's certainly more difficlut to understand the mind set and the emotions that go through a soldier if you were never one yourself. And yes... the urge to piss on dead corpses. Now FILMING the act... not to bright.


TheDemSocialist said:
So its a question now, if i served or not is it?
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Well did you?
 
apdst said:
You have no way of knowing. That's the whole point.
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Yeah, I know. Your argument amounts to "You have no way of knowing what you would do, so shut up and stop criticizing them!" That's a weak argument.
 
Ockham said:
It's certainly more difficlut to understand the mind set and the emotions that go through a soldier if you were never one yourself. And yes... the urge to piss on dead corpses. Now FILMING the act... not to bright.
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So its only ok to pee on dead corpses if you served in the military?
Im guessing why there is an investigation behind that.

Yea i understand that i wasnt there but does that give them the right to pee on dead people? How is that possibly even close to ok? I thought American soldiers were different than that. But i guess sense they put on a uniform that just makes them exempt from anything?



Well did you?
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No i did not. But does that not give me the right (a citizen of the US) to speak my mind on this subject?
 
Ockham said:
Take it up with Obama, who is our Commander in Chief of the Armed forces... :shrug: He's had 3 1/2 years to grasp what you easily find so obvious.
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And to think some thought Obama a liberal. LOL!
 
TheDemSocialist said:
So its only ok to pee on dead corpses if you served in the military?
Im guessing why there is an investigation behind that.
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There's an investigation because it was filmed and put on youtube. Is it okay to pee on corpses --- sure. If I'm with a company and some guy decides to take a deuce on top of a dead enemy, I'm not sayin' boo for a variety of reasons.

TheDemSocialist said:
Yea i understand that i wasnt there but does that give them the right to pee on dead people?
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Sure.

TheDemSocialist said:
How is that possibly even close to ok?
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What's not okay about it?

TheDemSocialist said:
I thought American soldiers were different than that. But i guess sense they put on a uniform that just makes them exempt from anything?
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You thought? So now Marines have to live up to what you think? That's not their job to live up to what you think they should or should not do. Their job is to do what they're told, to kill when told, to help when told and to do it in exceptional fashion. I'm sure this Marine when he pissed, did it very well.


TheDemSocialist said:
No i did not. But does that not give me the right (a citizen of the US) to speak my mind on this subject?
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It means you cannot empathize nor understand what did or did not prompt this Marine to do what he did. As you cannot and do not understand his state of mind, your view on the matter is one of a product of misunderstanding. I'm not saying you have to agree or condone his actions - but you have no way of understanding his frame of mind. You might just want to weigh that into your abject criticism and outrage.
 
CriticalThought said:
Who told them to piss on a dead enemy?
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That was called military initiative. They teach you that after they're sure you can follow orders and do what your told.
 
Ockham said:
That was called military initiative. They teach you that after they're sure you can follow orders and do what your told.
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Did they also teach the Marines that desecrating an enemy corpse is against the Geneva convention? Or was that lesson left out?
 
CriticalThought said:
Did they also teach the Marines that desecrating an enemy corpse is against the Geneva convention? Or was that lesson left out?
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Politicians and bureaucrats worry about the Geneva Convention. I'm sure this marine had things like staying alive as more of a priority. A little levity in the field may have been just the thing to lighten up the mood.
 
Ockham said:
Politicians and bureaucrats worry about the Geneva Convention. I'm sure this marine had things like staying alive as more of a priority. A little levity in the field may have been just the thing to lighten up the mood.
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Exactly what part of pissing on a corpse helps someone stay alive? Is pissing on dead bodies something you engage in for fun?
 
Wiseone said:
All these arguments about how the Taliban and Al-Qaeda have done worse to Americans and their own people is a bunch of bull****. The enemy does not define our morality, nor our standards. Being on the righteous side of war means exactly that, we are better than all the time, not some of the time, not most of the time, all the time and that is the standard. That is the quality of Soldier, Sailor, Airman, and Marine that this nation deserves and by God the people should demand. Being right doesn't mean not committing a heinous act, then all is fair game, it means NEVER committing them. It means being that medic who will save the life of a Taliban fighter taken prisoner just after he killed the medic's buddy. That is the kind of quality and righteousness needed and should be demanded of the military. It's that attitude of respecting your enemy even when he does not respect you, for the simple reason that he's another human being and you are better than that, you have a high standard of action.

How can we claim to be the good guys when stuff like this is done? Certainly in the grand scheme of things we've done less horrible acts than our enemies, but that's not good enough, we won't be the "lesser evil" and call it good enough, we should always strive to be completely free of these kinds of acts. Of course it will be impossible, of course mistakes will be made, Soldiers will act in ways they should not, of course there will be situations where someone has to die in a horrible and it will be unavoidable, but that doesn't mean we should give up on that standard.

The Uniformed Code of Justice, Article 134 reads as follows:


Quite clearly this action on the part of these Marines brings discredit upon the armed forces, it is a clear violation of our standards and discipline.
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And your argument is exactly why we are still in Afghanistan. Instead of going over there, taking it to the enemy, we are sitting back claiming the moral high road. War is immoral. That's why no one likes to do it. I don't like killing people, I don't like seeing kids dead because some terrorist decided to run in a random house and I called an airstrike in on it. That's what happens in a war though. When you sit back in Washington and put expectations upon our guys that aren't realistic, we end up being in theater for going on 11 years. We need to take the kid gloves off and take it to them. We need to stop caring what Karzai, Pakistan, and especially the Taliban care about us. If Karzai and Pakistan cared about getting rid of these terrorists, they'd have done it already. That's why we will never win that war, and why I think we should just leave. Screw an enemy laying on the ground bleeding out. I'd rather save my field dressing, Quikclot, and tourniquet for someone I actually care about, not some dirtbag that just tried to kill me or killed one of my buddies. Instead, we take care of him, he goes to "prison" for a couple of weeks, and there he is again, shooting at me. Do I think its right they pissed on those guys? No. Do I care, NO. At most they should get a Company NJP and leave it at that.
 
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