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Thread: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

  1. #861
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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If you're insinuating the age-old canard that Serenity is somehow a terrorist-supporter or an "enemy-supporter," then that is one big huge ****ing gigantic straw man.
    That's an "age old canard"? Lol

    No, SB, what I'm saying is if I'm going to be accused of being a hypocrite, I just want to understand why. Serenity thinks I should be just as outraged at these Marines as I am at our nations enemies when they drag dead bodies through the streets (etc.), and that failure to have that level of outrage makes me a hypocrite. I'm saying, I cannot and do not have that same level of outrage. The truth is I will give our troops more of the benefit of the doubt, not less, because I am on their side. That's all I was saying. I wasn't accusing anyone of anything.
    Last edited by X Factor; 01-15-12 at 01:52 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    That's an "age old canard"? Lol

    No, SB, what I'm saying is if I'm going to be accused of being a hypocrite, I just want to understand why. Serenity thinks I should be just as outraged at these Marines as I am at our nations enemies when they drag dead bodies through the streets (etc.), and that failure to have that level of outrage makes me a hypocrite. I'm saying, I'm willing to give our troops more of the benefit of the doubt because I am on their side.
    Alright, my apologies X.

    However, personally, I can't agree with this statement. Except for the fringe crazies who are anti-military and anti-America, we are ALL on the troops' side. We support them in that we want them to be successful in their mission and that they come back home safely.

    That has relatively little to do with how we view the actions of these Marines. I am very outraged when I see pictures of American contractors and American troops hung naked from a bridge or dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

    On the other hand, when I see our Marines do things that are clearly unethical on the battlefield, I'm upset as well. Not because I feel for the dead Taliban, but because I believe that our military is a professional organization that should adhere to a code of honor and certain values, that these actions violate those standards, and that since our policymakers are professing the moral high ground when it comes to the War on Terror, our troops should be held to a higher standard than the enemy.

    I don't think "being on their side," necessarily means that you give them leeway when they do wrong. Understand the action, and why it happened, yes, but don't dismiss or excuse it.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-15-12 at 01:54 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Serenity thinks I should be just as outraged at these Marines as I am at our nations enemies when they drag dead bodies through the streets (etc.),
    I am trying to see the practical difference between desecrating a dead body and desecrating a dead body. Maybe you can point it out to me.
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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Alright, my apologies X.
    No need to apologize at all. It was a good thing to clarify.

    However, personally, I can't agree with this statement. Except for the fringe crazies who are anti-military and anti-America, we are ALL on the troops' side. We support them in that we want them to be successful in their mission and that they come back home safely.

    That has relatively little to do with how we view the actions of these Marines. I am very outraged when I see pictures of American contractors and American troops hung naked from a bridge or dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

    On the other hand, when I see our Marines do things that are clearly unethical on the battlefield, I'm upset as well. Not because I feel for the dead Taliban, but because I believe that our military is a professional organization that should adhere to a code of honor and certain values, that these actions violate those standards, and that since our policymakers are professing the moral high ground when it comes to the War on Terror, our troops should be held to a higher standard than the enemy.

    I don't think "being on their side," necessarily means that you give them leeway when they do wrong. Understand the action, and why it happened, yes, but don't dismiss or excuse it.
    I know you disagree with me. Let me ask you, do you think these Marines committed a "war crime"?

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am trying to see the practical difference between desecrating a dead body and desecrating a dead body. Maybe you can point it out to me.
    One is less outrageous because it's our guys doing the desecrating. And I can certainly see why some people feel that way, but that argument doesn't fly with me.

    If you love your child or a younger sibling, do you be less upset when he does stupid **** compared to someone else's kid or sibling, or should you be more upset?

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    I don't matter what I think. People shoot off their mouths. Hell, I've taken that to a whole new level, nay, art form, myself.

    But, pondering your question, I do suppose the whitehouse would have to have a turbo charged turnstile in order to allow everyone who wants to shoot off their mouth about the P.O.T.U.S.

    I dare say that shooting off one's mouth without knowing the actual what-what about whatever it is they are shooting off their mough about has become a national pastime. This very forum would collapse otherwise.

    Perhaps, my momentary remembrance of the following picture, and my quickness to express that, here on this thread might not have been the smartest thing I do all day. In my human folly, I do have a tendancy to remain loyal to our service men and women. I will conceed that.

    Attachment 67121215
    I don't think there are too many people in this thread who aren't loyal to those in the military in some respect. My only point was that it makes as much sense to tell non-military people to shut up about military affairs as it does to tell non-Presidents to shut up about Presidential decisions. Like you said, if people followed such rules, this forum wouldn't even exist. Moreover, not being in the military does not mean that you don't have enough of an understanding of war and the psychological toll it takes to have a valid opinion on the actions described in the OP.

    It seems like the biggest things veterans want to point out is that war is brutal, it takes a toll on soldiers mental state and that they have to dehumanize the opposition to make it through. If people understand and acknowledge all of that, then there's isn't much left in terms of "you just don't get it" to dismiss people's arguments with.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No need to apologize at all. It was a good thing to clarify.



    I know you disagree with me. Let me ask you, do you think these Marines committed a "war crime"?
    The answer is no, not even close. A war crime, in my opinion, would generally involve the killing of innocent civilians or combatants who have already surrendered to you.

    However, it was an action that, once again, while completely understandable, is morally and ethically wrong, however minor we might perceive it to be. But even discounting my personal moral opinions on the matter, the videotaping and letting it get onto the internet was absolutely stupid.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am trying to see the practical difference between desecrating a dead body and desecrating a dead body. Maybe you can point it out to me.
    I loove how you completly ignored my embryo comment.

    P.s. you cant use the word practical in that sentence because if the person is dead they have no practical use for their body anymore. Its practically useless.
    Last edited by Dpetty; 01-15-12 at 02:16 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am trying to see the practical difference between desecrating a dead body and desecrating a dead body. Maybe you can point it out to me.
    If you're suggesting that those Marines are "just the same" as our enemies, I'm sorry, I'm just not going to be able to agree with that.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The answer is no, not even close. A war crime, in my opinion, would generally involve the killing of innocent civilians or combatants who have already surrendered to you.

    However, it was an action that, once again, while completely understandable, is morally and ethically wrong, however minor we might perceive it to be. But even discounting my personal moral opinions on the matter, the videotaping and letting it get onto the internet was absolutely stupid.
    Stillballin - can you compare it in severity to something non-war related? Meaning, you say it's wrong, how wrong is it? What kind of crime would the punishment be similar to? Or, if you can, what should the punishment actually be?
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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