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Thread: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    This is so freakin ridiculous I can barely grasp it. In Nam it was common practice to take ears for trophy's and wearing a near necklace wasn't that uncommon. As for cameras it was also common to cut off the heads of a couple of dead VC, and take turns holding them by the hair in front of you for pics. It's WAR, these little celebration things are Good for moral and it really helps blow off steam. I am sick to death of sniveling little lib scum cowards sitting in their easy chairs at home judging soldiers.
    Everyone is aware of the disgusting practices and disregard for any life of the US in Vietnam. Having that televised across the world was the very thing which lost you that war even among your own people.

    Due to that you have tried since then to keep camera's out and give the pretence you act with some honour in war.

    I accept you soldiers are saying combat soldiers go psychotic, that may be so. It is also a good reason for less war.

    Someone suggested only combat soldiers talk on this as only they would understand. I suggest we take that idea and use it towards our foes and gain the same understanding of their irrational behaviour hence allowing us the opportunity to stop this constant war which I hear from people on this thread 99% of the time makes people psychopaths.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    :slaps forehead: stop the war!!!


    why didn't we think of that before?


    okay, you call Crazy Muslim Headquarters, and I'll start making a cake for the end-of-war party.


    Wait - they're going to be cool with this whole "Give up on the demands of your God and just pretend like the last 300 years of Islamic history didn't happen" thing, right?








    really. it amazes me. has ever a populace before this thought that wars are things that end when one side becomes bored of watching it on television?

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    :slaps forehead: stop the war!!!


    why didn't we think of that before?


    okay, you call Crazy Muslim Headquarters, and I'll start making a cake for the end-of-war party.


    Wait - they're going to be cool with this whole "Give up on the demands of your God and just pretend like the last 300 years of Islamic history didn't happen" thing, right?








    really. it amazes me. has ever a populace before this thought that wars are things that end when one side becomes bored of watching it on television?
    Got any more straw men to break out? Want to adress the points people are making?
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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Everyone is aware of the disgusting practices and disregard for any life of the US in Vietnam. Having that televised across the world was the very thing which lost you that war even among your own people.

    Due to that you have tried since then to keep camera's out and give the pretence you act with some honour in war.

    I accept you soldiers are saying combat soldiers go psychotic, that may be so. It is also a good reason for less war.

    Someone suggested only combat soldiers talk on this as only they would understand. I suggest we take that idea and use it towards our foes and gain the same understanding of their irrational behaviour hence allowing us the opportunity to stop this constant war which I hear from people on this thread 99% of the time makes people psychopaths.
    The vast majority of our soldiers do act with honor. When they do not and are cuaght, they are heavily punished.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, when we get avatar robots so that infantrymen no longer have to go into combat, let me know and we can get to work on stopping it from becoming normal behavior. Until then, our ground combat veterans will be largely young men who themselves risk death or dismemberment, and will react as human beings have to those stresses since the dawn of time.

    and all soldiers love and respect their chain of command, and are sure that their leadership has their best interests at heart. Perhaps they could celebrate with a checkers tournament? cmon man.

    We had a suicide attack once by three guys chucking grenades and wearing vests (well, I say 'we', but I was part of the QRF), the first two guys were ventilated by everyone turning and firing en masse (one wounded an IP), at which point the third guy decided that he was maybe less dedicated to The Jihad than he had thought he was, and turned to run. He hopped a wall, accidentally triggering his own vest, and body parts showered back over. It was pretty hilarious. One of the parts that came back was an arm from the elbow down - which guys picked up and shook hands with, challenged each other to duels, etc. Their Lt let them for a while until it was time to put a lid on it - which was the right call. If you don't let guys blow off steam after a fight, you will find that they bottle and can explode in manners much worse than pissing on dead people.

    you are a combat psychiatrist?

    indeed. very naughty. then you can explain to them the importance of maintaining proper grooming habits and not wearing or using non-issued equipment while on a two week patrol

    Gotta run now, i'll google map it later
    I'm not a combat psychiatrist, but I don't need to be to make a call if I think something is wrong. Obviously its not an official diagnosis, but it would be like when one of my Soldiers showed up to the motor pool before a mission and he was piss drunk, this combined with other incidents that happened before made me think "This kid's probably an alcoholic." Now can I diagnosis alcoholism the same way an Army doctor or other trained specialist can? Of course not. But its part of my authority and responsibility to make my concerns known to my chain of my command, along with my PSG and his Squad Leader in the Commander's office. Why? Because I believed he needed someone who could make that medical diagnosis to take a look at him, and I wanted a Command referral to ASAP(Army Substance Abuse Program) to get him help.

    Same thing with combat stress or any kind of negative thing affecting my troops, I obviously can't diagnosis them but I can refer them or ask someone with the authority to refer them if I believe something is up. That's part of my job to look after the Soldiers. And if my Commander said no for whatever reason, and I still felt strongly about it and my NCOs felt the same, we'd take that guy aside and have an informal or a formal counseling session. The goal being not to punish him, like if I caught someone pissing on a body my first thought wouldn't be towards punishment, but rather to nip a potentially huge problem in the bud before it goes.

    Now every situation is different, I couldn't say what I would have done if one of my Soldiers picked up a guy's arm and started playing with it. But certainly at the forefront of my mind would be taking care of these Soldiers, which means asking questions like "This is guy OK mentally" and if I think "Yes or maybe" I need to think how to proceed. Perhaps that LT made the right call considering the situation, and he felt they needed a chance to detox, who knows. I know the book, regs, and superior commanders if asked for the "official" answer would say hell no to the extreme, but I've mentioned before here I don't always follow those like any good officer in my opinion should. I'm not here to be a walking regulation.

    Using your example I think I would have allowed them to laugh and the absurdity and the irony of a guy blowing his own vest while trying to escape, but once body parts start getting played with its something else entirely. But who knows I wasn't there.

    I've got a guy in my squad, an old ranger type who spent most of his military career in the rangers before transferring for health reasons to the truck driving field. He has a morbid sense of humor, like how he chuckles when he talks about how when having to put the bodies of the enemy into body bags after rigor mortis set in, they'd have to tie their arms and legs together to keep their limbs from popping back out into the position they were in when they died. And laughing at how if some reporter saw these bodies they'd think they were shot execution style because of the bindings. I understand he needed that humor to get him through that and other morbid tasks, but at the same time he also suffers from the memories of those days. We did have to take him to the hospital once for some serious self inflicted injuries one time.

    My point being, I understand the humor as a common way to get over the immediate insanity of the whole situation you find yourself in, but in the long term it may drag heavily on your mind how cavalier you were at those times because the parts of your mind that were losing their **** were suppressed, but they can come back over the years with a vengeance. I want these Soldiers to be dealing with this craziness and stress as healthy as possible in both the present and the future. And if I believe that while playing with body parts, or pissing on bodies, can offer some short term relief but may lead to more problems down the road. I'm going to look for a better solution, which in no way will be perfect. Some of the best doctors in the world can't figure out PTSD and other combat trauma, so what can LT do? Well I'll do what I can, and when I say "I'll do" I mean we'll all do. Me, NCOs, the Soldiers themselves, watching each other watching their leadership, all of us together getting through it as safety as possible and with our minds intact as much as possible so the ghosts don't haunt us.

    Like you said, its been a reaction to that stress since the dawn of time, but if I think there's a healthier way I'm going to pursue it. And by that I just don't mean my thinking alone, there are all kinds of resources out there for this problem and those will be my weapons against it.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not a combat psychiatrist, but I don't need to be to make a call if I think something is wrong. Obviously its not an official diagnosis, but it would be like when one of my Soldiers showed up to the motor pool before a mission and he was piss drunk, this combined with other incidents that happened before made me think "This kid's probably an alcoholic." Now can I diagnosis alcoholism the same way an Army doctor or other trained specialist can? Of course not. But its part of my authority and responsibility to make my concerns known to my chain of my command, along with my PSG and his Squad Leader in the Commander's office. Why? Because I believed he needed someone who could make that medical diagnosis to take a look at him, and I wanted a Command referral to ASAP(Army Substance Abuse Program) to get him help.

    Same thing with combat stress or any kind of negative thing affecting my troops, I obviously can't diagnosis them but I can refer them or ask someone with the authority to refer them if I believe something is up. That's part of my job to look after the Soldiers. And if my Commander said no for whatever reason, and I still felt strongly about it and my NCOs felt the same, we'd take that guy aside and have an informal or a formal counseling session. The goal being not to punish him, like if I caught someone pissing on a body my first thought wouldn't be towards punishment, but rather to nip a potentially huge problem in the bud before it goes.
    the problem being, what are you going to do once you have pulled 38 of your 40 soldiers out for psychiatric treatment, and it's just you and your platoon sergeant?

    "Warning: Combat May Be Hazardous To Your Health"


    Now every situation is different, I couldn't say what I would have done if one of my Soldiers picked up a guy's arm and started playing with it. But certainly at the forefront of my mind would be taking care of these Soldiers, which means asking questions like "This is guy OK mentally" and if I think "Yes or maybe" I need to think how to proceed. Perhaps that LT made the right call considering the situation, and he felt they needed a chance to detox, who knows. I know the book, regs, and superior commanders if asked for the "official" answer would say hell no to the extreme, but I've mentioned before here I don't always follow those like any good officer in my opinion should. I'm not here to be a walking regulation.
    well, yeah. I wonder if the people at the top have any idea that ROE's that are clearly not connected to reality will simply be ignored - and that therefore publishing them have effects opposite of their intent?

    Using your example I think I would have allowed them to laugh and the absurdity and the irony of a guy blowing his own vest while trying to escape, but once body parts start getting played with its something else entirely. But who knows I wasn't there.

    I've got a guy in my squad, an old ranger type who spent most of his military career in the rangers before transferring for health reasons to the truck driving field. He has a morbid sense of humor, like how he chuckles when he talks about how when having to put the bodies of the enemy into body bags after rigor mortis set in, they'd have to tie their arms and legs together to keep their limbs from popping back out into the position they were in when they died. And laughing at how if some reporter saw these bodies they'd think they were shot execution style because of the bindings. I understand he needed that humor to get him through that and other morbid tasks, but at the same time he also suffers from the memories of those days. We did have to take him to the hospital once for some serious self inflicted injuries one time.
    well that happens sometimes too. I've lost a few to suicide. But you're spot on about the sense of humor - I don't think I know a single infantry vet without it. Which helps too - even suicide can have it's funny side as well, on occasion.

    My point being, I understand the humor as a common way to get over the immediate insanity of the whole situation you find yourself in, but in the long term it may drag heavily on your mind how cavalier you were at those times because the parts of your mind that were losing their **** were suppressed, but they can come back over the years with a vengeance. I want these Soldiers to be dealing with this craziness and stress as healthy as possible in both the present and the future. And if I believe that while playing with body parts, or pissing on bodies, can offer some short term relief but may lead to more problems down the road.
    maybe so. These guys are probably less concerned about the next 6 years than they are the next 6 months - and rightly so.

    Like you said, its been a reaction to that stress since the dawn of time, but if I think there's a healthier way I'm going to pursue it. And by that I just don't mean my thinking alone, there are all kinds of resources out there for this problem and those will be my weapons against it.
    you all get hammered together, sing songs to your dead, and go haze the boots.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Got any more straw men to break out? Want to adress the points people are making?
    guess you missed the post:

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa
    I suggest we take that idea and use it towards our foes and gain the same understanding of their irrational behaviour hence allowing us the opportunity to stop this constant war which I hear from people on this thread 99% of the time makes people psychopaths.
    it's silly. takes two to stop a war.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    My thoughts too. It makes me wonder if we lost 58,000 of my generation for nothing.

    Am not anti-military either. I remember being in boot camp marching and singing we were going to kill Viet Cong and we were all bursting at the seam to do just that.
    I just don't about that war now.
    World War II was just and Pearl Harbor still angers me even though I was not born yet.


    Wiluxury luxery of time and many sleepless nights reflecting on this I think Nam was a place to have a proxy war with certain countries that wanted communisim to spread and gain power worldwide. It was more of a holding action than anything else. In the end communism imploded with a little help from Reagan and I am not entirely sure if the war really gained us alot in the long term but it's one of those what if things we will never know. All I can really say is God bless all our fallen troops that did their duty when called.


    Not to wonder off on a tangent but I read statistics on Vietnam Vets and the fact that Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than our non-vet age group made me wonder about all those guys at the stoplights with signs saying Vietnam Vet, Anything Helps.
    I think many of those guys are like the blind beggar that takes his sunglasses off after he gets enough money in his cup and walks off to the local bar.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    With the luxury luxery of time and many sleepless nights reflecting on this I think Nam was a place to have a proxy war with certain countries that wanted communisim to spread and gain power worldwide. It was more of a holding action than anything else. In the end communism imploded with a little help from Reagan and I am not entirely sure if the war really gained us alot in the long term but it's one of those what if things we will never know. All I can really say is God bless all our fallen troops that did their duty when called.

    Somehow the above ended up inserted in your post, beats me, LOL

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Everyone is aware of the disgusting practices and disregard for any life of the US in Vietnam. Having that televised across the world was the very thing which lost you that war even among your own people.

    Due to that you have tried since then to keep camera's out and give the pretence you act with some honour in war.

    I accept you soldiers are saying combat soldiers go psychotic, that may be so. It is also a good reason for less war.

    Someone suggested only combat soldiers talk on this as only they would understand. I suggest we take that idea and use it towards our foes and gain the same understanding of their irrational behaviour hence allowing us the opportunity to stop this constant war which I hear from people on this thread 99% of the time makes people psychopaths.
    \

    "disregard for human life"? You have no idea do you, war is far beyond disregard for human life. It is thirsting to kill your enemy that has killed your buddies and taking great delight seeing their dead bodies bloat in the sun. It must be nice in your comfy little world and you should get on your knees and thank all the soldiers through out history that let you have your sweet little life.

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