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Thread: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    The fact is you've probably never been in anywhere near as tough a position as these guys may have been or guys like them who have probably had to see several of there friends go home in little pieces or see little Afghan kids who they gave candy to the week before get there hand cut off because of it. .
    A lot of military men and women have gone through the same or similar things and didn't piss on dead bodies. Consequently, while the actions described in the OP are understandable given the amount of mental stress these soldiers might have experienced (we don't even know what they've experienced), it doesn't excuse their behavior.

    Your argument amounts to "if you haven't experienced it, you don't have a valid opinion". By that logic, no one should ever comment on anything that they haven't experienced which makes absolutely zero sense, particularly in this case since everyone has a stake in how our military behaves.

    I can understand your desire to defend these guys since you seemingly know what it's like to be them in some sense, but when they sign up to represent an entire country, then the members of that country can certainly have a valid opinion on their behavior. At the same time, non-military individuals should also seek to understand their potential mentality before making judgments which it seems most non-military people in this thread have done. There's really not more you can ask than to have people seek to understand before coming to conclusions. So unless the Marines stop representing me, unless you start paying my taxes and unless the actions of those soldiers stop having the potential to affect me, my family and my country, then that's what I'm going to do and your attempt to shout down any non-military opinion will be done in vain.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    As an addendum to my previous post:

    "I have viewed an internet video that depicts Marines desecrating several dead Taliban in Afghanistan. I want to be clear and unambiguous, the behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history." - Gen. James Amos, Commandant of the Marine Corps
    From the mouth of the man himself. Once again, Iron Yank, this has NOTHING to do with my personal beliefs or ethics.

    Honor: Honor requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct. Honor is many things; honor requires many things. A U.S. Marine must never lie, never cheat, never steal, but that is not enough. Much more is required. Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs. And, above all, honor mandates that a Marine never sully the reputation of his Corps.
    The Corps itself claims to adhere to high standards of conduct - I did not make them say that. Once again, this has nothing to do with my liberal self-righteousness and everything to do with the Corps own professed values. It is only fair that they put their money where their mouth is and adhere to, and reaffirm, those standards when they are violated.

    So, given the above, I believe I bring up a fair point about the behavior of those Marines regardless of whether or not I've served in uniform or combat, so you can shut it with the "war is hell so don't judge them" card.

    It's about about as ridiculous as accusing a white person of 'not knowing what it's like to be black, how dare you judge me when you're not black' when the race card is played.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-14-12 at 01:27 AM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan




    Now that's funny right there. Infantry Marines are taught and trained to steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes stuff that is nailed down but inadequately guarded. That's how we get gear.

    We also lie all the time:
    Colonel out "visiting the troops to buck up their morale": "Hey there devil-dog! How's it going"
    Marine who hates everyone above the rank of Sergeant and who just spent his 6 hours of sleep time cleaning because the F'ing Colonel was coming: "Going fine, Sir."

    We cheat all the time too - you think calling in air support in a small arms engagement is fair? Of course it's not - but screw those guys, they have it coming.


    You seem to have fallen for the propaganda. The more accurate version is "A U.S. Marine Must Never Be Caught A) Lying to those who don't want the truth, B)Stealing from the other services, Or C) Cheating in a fight in such a way as to draw censure". The only thing that's fully accurate is the last - no Marine is allowed to sully the Corps by being caught - hence these guys will get what they have coming to them irregardless.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-14-12 at 01:56 AM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post



    Now that's funny right there. Marines steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes stuff that is nailed down but inadequately guarded. That's how we get gear.

    We also lie all the time:
    Colonel out "visiting the troops to buck up their morale": "Hey there devil-dog! How's it going"
    Marine who hates everyone above the rank of Sergeant and who just spent his 6 hours of sleep time cleaning because the F'ing Colonel was coming: "Going fine, Sir."

    We cheat all the time too - you think calling in air support in a small arms engagement is fair? Of course it's not - but screw those guys, they have it coming.


    You seem to have fallen for the propaganda. The more accurate version is "A U.S. Marine Must Never Be Caught A) Lying to those who don't want the truth, B)Stealing from the other services, Or C) Cheating in a fight in such a way as to draw censure". The only thing that's fully accurate is the last - no Marine is allowed to sully the Corps by being caught - hence these guys will get what they have coming to them irregardless.
    lol I actually got a good laugh out of that.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    A lot of military men and women have gone through the same or similar things and didn't piss on dead bodies.
    no, they do other things. I've seen them play with the bodies, for example. Guys watching "kill tv" will often have a running bookie on whether or not a guy will make it or become paste.


    Or they live in a Locked Up Chain Of Command who doesn't allow them any relaxation on deployment, so they go home, become alcoholics, and beat their wives and children.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-14-12 at 02:00 AM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post



    Now that's funny right there. Infantry Marines are taught and trained to steal everything that isn't nailed down and sometimes stuff that is nailed down but inadequately guarded. That's how we get gear.

    We also lie all the time:
    Colonel out "visiting the troops to buck up their morale": "Hey there devil-dog! How's it going"
    Marine who hates everyone above the rank of Sergeant and who just spent his 6 hours of sleep time cleaning because the F'ing Colonel was coming: "Going fine, Sir."

    We cheat all the time too - you think calling in air support in a small arms engagement is fair? Of course it's not - but screw those guys, they have it coming.


    You seem to have fallen for the propaganda. The more accurate version is "A U.S. Marine Must Never Be Caught A) Lying to those who don't want the truth, B)Stealing from the other services, Or C) Cheating in a fight in such a way as to draw censure". The only thing that's fully accurate is the last - no Marine is allowed to sully the Corps by being caught - hence these guys will get what they have coming to them irregardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, they do other things. I've seen them play with the bodies, for example. Guys watching "kill tv" will often have a running bookie on whether or not a guy will make it or become paste.


    Or they live in a Locked Up Chain Of Command who doesn't allow them any relaxation on deployment, so they go home, become alcoholics, and beat their wives and children.
    Well, CP, I know we don't always agree, but that was some good **** and I appreciate you keepin it real. It's about bedtime for me, stay safe bro.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, CP, I know we don't always agree, but that was some good **** and I appreciate you keepin it real. It's about bedtime for me, stay safe bro.
    well, that's the trick of it - what you see those Marines doing on the video? that's just real Marines in real Combat. the problem is, America doesn't like real combat; America prefers to live in Happy Land where Real Combat is more like movies from the 1950's.

    "Ah! Gosh darn it, he winged me, Sergeant!"

    "It's okay son, our excellent medic will be here to get you evacuated ricky ticky"

    "Gee wiz sarge, I'm just so disappointed I won't be able to give more to America."

    "Lock up that complaining, private; according to the script writers you will meet and fall in love with a beautiful nurse who can't resist your boyish charm and rakish ways, before developing a hit broadway show based on how much you love snow in Vermont."



    et. al. So we see a video of a guy throwing a puppy off a cliff, or peeing on a dead body, and we have a collective hyperventilating Oh My Gosh You Can't DOoooooo That! period of "shock" where everyone in charge either A) pretends to be shocked or B) demonstrates naivite by acting as though Happy Land were the reality rather than combat on the ground.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-14-12 at 02:11 AM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well, that's the trick of it - what you see those Marines doing on the video? that's just real Marines in real Combat. the problem is, America doesn't like real combat; America prefers to live in Happy Land where Real Combat is more like movies from the 1950's.

    "Ah! Gosh darn it, he winged me, Sergeant!"

    "It's okay son, our excellent medic will be here to get you evacuated ricky ticky"

    "Gee wiz sarge, I'm just so disappointed I won't be able to give more to America."

    "Lock up that complaining, private; according to the script writers you will meet and fall in love with a beautiful nurse who can't resist your boyish charm and rakish ways..."

    et. al. So we see a video of a guy throwing a puppy off a cliff, or peeing on a dead body, and we have a collective hyperventilating Oh My Gosh You Can't DOoooooo That! period of "shock" where everyone in charge either A) pretends to be shocked or B) demonstrates naivite by acting as though Happy Land were the reality rather than combat on the ground.
    My position throughout this whole thread has been this:

    The pissing on the dead body was wrong, but hardly surprising. I'm not too worked up about that.

    On the other hand, taking a video and allowing it to be somehow uploaded onto the Interwebz is patently idiotic.

    What I AM worked up about is this notion that your opinion somehow doesn't count if you've never put on a uniform or served in combat. Both me and you realize that war brutalizes and dehumanizes the individual. That's fine. I recognize that. That doesn't take away from the fact that throwing a puppy over a cliff is ****ed up and the dude needs help. I mean, what the **** ever happened to "personal responsibility" and being accountable for your own actions?

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Just don't pee on anybody:











    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #730
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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    My position throughout this whole thread has been this:

    The pissing on the dead body was wrong, but hardly surprising. I'm not too worked up about that.

    On the other hand, taking a video and allowing it to be somehow uploaded onto the Interwebz is patently idiotic.
    agreed.

    What I AM worked up about is this notion that your opinion somehow doesn't count if you've never put on a uniform or served in combat. Both me and you realize that war brutalizes and dehumanizes the individual. That's fine. I recognize that. That doesn't take away from the fact that throwing a puppy over a cliff is ****ed up and the dude needs help. I mean, what the **** ever happened to "personal responsibility" and being accountable for your own actions?
    that doesn't mean you are ****ed up and need help. It means you have made the necessary mental adjustments to survive with sanity intact. You only need help if you are unable to reintegrate. Took me a while - for example I didn't quite understand at first why my civilian friends didn't think that rape was funny. but I self-medicated with alcohol, and spent some good time playing with my son.

    that's the point of contention here - while generally folks are agreeing here that these guys have to go down now for the good of the team... what you see in that video is them keeping their sanity. they've had to do that because we put them there. It's like the old story of a guy who has to steal food so his kids can eat - punish him if you must to enforce rule of law, but don't pretend you have the standing to morally judge him for his actions. The world you live in is artificial and easy compared to his.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-14-12 at 02:44 AM.

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