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U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

I have found enough things in this world to be outraged over. This is petty and doesn't make the list.
 
jamesrage said:
I never said it was an appropriate response. I just said it was no big deal.If I was in their shoes I probably would have done a lot worse than piss on them. People need to quit getting their ******s hurt because of what some marines in a war zone did to some DEAD terrorists. This kind of **** doesn't warrant media attention.Its just a bunch of cry baby ***** girly men whining over nothing and trying to find something to be offended about.So what if some dead terrorists got peed on. IF the marines were harvesting some organs or pulling out the finger nails of terrorist that are alive then that would be a big deal.
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Not sure how much it does or doesn't merit. But I wouldn't spend any time trying to excuse them. Nor would I excuse you. Not only is it childish, not becoming of mature human beings, or any human beings for that matter, it does shed a poor light on them. In today's world, that is something they have to keep in mind, whether any of us like it or not.
 
Viktyr Korimir said:
This is disgusting, and there should be appropriate disciplinary action. I can't imagine that there's anyone out there who has anything else to say on the matter.
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Do you have any idea what these f#cks do to the bodies of our boys?

What is disgusting is your rush to judgment about something of which you have no understanding.
 
Wiseone said:
I'll meet you half way, filming it was a ridiculously stupid decision. And I hope they weren't so stupid as to post it themselves to Youtube. And I agree a victory is a worthy event to celebrate, although how you do it is critical.

Now yes as an officer I'm often shielded from the perspective of that man on the absolute front line, sending lead, receiving lead, taking the fight to the enemy and engaging him in close combat. I do try as I can to get myself out there as much as I can, I'm obviously not in Afghanistan and there's no lead being slung in Korea so I can't claim combat experience. However I do try to involve myself in the daily lives of the Soldiers within my Platoon, not because I'm a micro-manger but because I want to know what's going on. Out here in Korea I personally lead missions, again its not the same as combat at all, but I do have an understanding of the frustrations my Soldiers go through while on mission. I'm part of a truck company so our missions always involve driving, out here on Korean roads I'm sure you remember is completely insane and trying to maneuver a massive truck makes it all the worse. But since I'm out there they can talk to me about their frustrations with their equipment, the missions, whatever else, and I can understand and talk in the same language because I see it.

Now I brought all that up not because I'm saying I know what the stresses of combat are like because I lead convoys in Korea, I brought it up to acknowledge your point that officers are often detached and truly don't understand their Soldiers and let you know I do what I can about it.

However, just because I understand their frustrations doesn't mean I have to accept their wrongful actions that may come from them. If I saw a group of my Soldiers pissing on some Taliban, and it was only me, I'd immediately put a stop to it. Not only for all the reasons I mentioned about what happens if it gets out, but because something is wrong and it needs to be corrected. I would see it as a sign that the stresses and horrors of this place have seriously gotten to these Soldiers and they need help and its my job to make sure they get it. Chaplain, psychological help, something has to be done because its not normal behavior to do something like this.

I know the military, given personnel and mission needs, have sometimes turned a blind eye towards Soldier stress or trauma. I could see myself telling my CO, these guys need to be taken off for a few days(although not saying exactly what they did) and having it shot down because we really need the people. And if that was the case they'd have my special attention along with their NCO, who would know about it and I'd expect an extra cautious eye on them too.

And why do I do it? Not only for the mission, I've made that clear. I also would do it for the Soldiers themselves they deserve to have someone watching their back when it comes to issues like this, and its important to brief your Soldiers or help them understand better what stress looks like in another way so they can watch their buddies. NCO involvement is obviously critical too. That is leadership responsibility, those men deserve someone to look after their mental well being just as much as their physical. Their buddies deserve to not work in an AO where something like that just happened, and now are facing even more pissed off Taliban. The Soldiers deserve to not have their lives ruined because of a single stupid incident. The Soldiers who sacrificed, whether their health, marriage, mental well being, or their lives deserve that mission to be accomplished so it was not in vain.

All those reasons are why I have my opinion, and wouldn't tolerate this in the slightest. And if it did get out of my control and a video was posted to Youtube, what can I do besides follow the rules and regulations? At that point, its out of the PL's hand's there's nothing more I can do besides speak for their behalf, and if the investigators have the same opinion as I do about the role of leadership its probably my ass in deep **** too.
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:shrug: as an officer it's your job to shut down stuff like that. but you should know that your diagnosis of the Marines involved is off - this is entirely normal behavior, well within the range of typical responses to the stresses of combat. It doesn't mean that they are psychiatric cases - it means that they are young.
 
Incidentally, I've been through Korea a couple of times myself - where you at?
 
Boo Radley said:
Not sure how much it does or doesn't merit. But I wouldn't spend any time trying to excuse them. Nor would I excuse you. Not only is it childish, not becoming of mature human beings, or any human beings for that matter, it does shed a poor light on them. In today's world, that is something they have to keep in mind, whether any of us like it or not.
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I think this discussion should be limited to those who have taken the life of another individual under combat circumstances. And to those who have watched as someone they care about is killed under the same circumstance.
 
Dpetty said:
I think this discussion should be limited to those who have taken the life of another individual under combat circumstances. And to those who have watched as someone they care about is killed under the same circumstance.
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When the military stops representing me and my country and when the consequences of actions described in the OP don't have the potential to affect my life, my family and my country, then I'll agree with you.
 
Dpetty said:
I think this discussion should be limited to those who have taken the life of another individual under combat circumstances. And to those who have watched as someone they care about is killed under the same circumstance.
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Alright. Can we at least agree that the fact that they took a video of it, which then somehow found its way onto the internet, was stupid and shortsighted?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Alright. Can we at least agree that the fact that they took a video of it, which then somehow found its way onto the internet, was stupid and shortsighted?
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Yep. Took stupidity to a whole new level. It suddenly went from, "What??? Are you guy's ****'n nuts???? Knock it off!!!" to an international incident that will undoubtedly change these guys' lives forever. What a shame.

Edited my slang so it wouldn't be seen as circumventing the word censor.
 
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Wars have been started for less....


I think. :doh
 
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Wiseone said:
I'll meet you half way, filming it was a ridiculously stupid decision. And I hope they weren't so stupid as to post it themselves to Youtube. And I agree a victory is a worthy event to celebrate, although how you do it is critical.

Now yes as an officer I'm often shielded from the perspective of that man on the absolute front line, sending lead, receiving lead, taking the fight to the enemy and engaging him in close combat. I do try as I can to get myself out there as much as I can, I'm obviously not in Afghanistan and there's no lead being slung in Korea so I can't claim combat experience. However I do try to involve myself in the daily lives of the Soldiers within my Platoon, not because I'm a micro-manger but because I want to know what's going on. Out here in Korea I personally lead missions, again its not the same as combat at all, but I do have an understanding of the frustrations my Soldiers go through while on mission. I'm part of a truck company so our missions always involve driving, out here on Korean roads I'm sure you remember is completely insane and trying to maneuver a massive truck makes it all the worse. But since I'm out there they can talk to me about their frustrations with their equipment, the missions, whatever else, and I can understand and talk in the same language because I see it.

Now I brought all that up not because I'm saying I know what the stresses of combat are like because I lead convoys in Korea, I brought it up to acknowledge your point that officers are often detached and truly don't understand their Soldiers and let you know I do what I can about it.

However, just because I understand their frustrations doesn't mean I have to accept their wrongful actions that may come from them. If I saw a group of my Soldiers pissing on some Taliban, and it was only me, I'd immediately put a stop to it. Not only for all the reasons I mentioned about what happens if it gets out, but because something is wrong and it needs to be corrected. I would see it as a sign that the stresses and horrors of this place have seriously gotten to these Soldiers and they need help and its my job to make sure they get it. Chaplain, psychological help, something has to be done because its not normal behavior to do something like this.

I know the military, given personnel and mission needs, have sometimes turned a blind eye towards Soldier stress or trauma. I could see myself telling my CO, these guys need to be taken off for a few days(although not saying exactly what they did) and having it shot down because we really need the people. And if that was the case they'd have my special attention along with their NCO, who would know about it and I'd expect an extra cautious eye on them too.

And why do I do it? Not only for the mission, I've made that clear. I also would do it for the Soldiers themselves they deserve to have someone watching their back when it comes to issues like this, and its important to brief your Soldiers or help them understand better what stress looks like in another way so they can watch their buddies. NCO involvement is obviously critical too. That is leadership responsibility, those men deserve someone to look after their mental well being just as much as their physical. Their buddies deserve to not work in an AO where something like that just happened, and now are facing even more pissed off Taliban. The Soldiers deserve to not have their lives ruined because of a single stupid incident. The Soldiers who sacrificed, whether their health, marriage, mental well being, or their lives deserve that mission to be accomplished so it was not in vain.

All those reasons are why I have my opinion, and wouldn't tolerate this in the slightest. And if it did get out of my control and a video was posted to Youtube, what can I do besides follow the rules and regulations? At that point, its out of the PL's hand's there's nothing more I can do besides speak for their behalf, and if the investigators have the same opinion as I do about the role of leadership its probably my ass in deep **** too.
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cpwill said:
:shrug: as an officer it's your job to shut down stuff like that. but you should know that your diagnosis of the Marines involved is off - this is entirely normal behavior, well within the range of typical responses to the stresses of combat. It doesn't mean that they are psychiatric cases - it means that they are young.
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I disagree that its normal behavior, and if it is normal behavior then it needs to stop becoming normal behavior. I don't care if I'm in charge of a PLT of Marines or Soldiers, that kind of behavior won't have a place here. Victory should be celebrated but some way different, there is too much risk, all of it unnecessary, for celebrating like this. It would also be my professional judgment that urinating on a body is a sign something may have gone a little funny in your head, and its worth someone with proper training looking into. Hell even if there's nothing wrong with them, it provides a chance to explain to them exactly what could happen and why I won't tolerate it.

I know I keep saying Soldiers and not Marines or personnel, its a force of habit. And I'm at Camp Red Cloud Korea, like my location says.
 
Wiseone said:
I disagree that its normal behavior, and if it is normal behavior then it needs to stop becoming normal behavior.
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Well, when we get avatar robots so that infantrymen no longer have to go into combat, let me know and we can get to work on stopping it from becoming normal behavior. Until then, our ground combat veterans will be largely young men who themselves risk death or dismemberment, and will react as human beings have to those stresses since the dawn of time.

I don't care if I'm in charge of a PLT of Marines or Soldiers, that kind of behavior won't have a place here. Victory should be celebrated but some way different, there is too much risk, all of it unnecessary, for celebrating like this.
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:) and all soldiers love and respect their chain of command, and are sure that their leadership has their best interests at heart. Perhaps they could celebrate with a checkers tournament? cmon man.

We had a suicide attack once by three guys chucking grenades and wearing vests (well, I say 'we', but I was part of the QRF), the first two guys were ventilated by everyone turning and firing en masse (one wounded an IP), at which point the third guy decided that he was maybe less dedicated to The Jihad than he had thought he was, and turned to run. He hopped a wall, accidentally triggering his own vest, and body parts showered back over. :D It was pretty hilarious. One of the parts that came back was an arm from the elbow down - which guys picked up and shook hands with, challenged each other to duels, etc. Their Lt let them for a while until it was time to put a lid on it - which was the right call. If you don't let guys blow off steam after a fight, you will find that they bottle and can explode in manners much worse than pissing on dead people.

It would also be my professional judgment that urinating on a body is a sign something may have gone a little funny in your head
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you are a combat psychiatrist?

and its worth someone with proper training looking into. Hell even if there's nothing wrong with them, it provides a chance to explain to them exactly what could happen and why I won't tolerate it.
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indeed. very naughty. then you can explain to them the importance of maintaining proper grooming habits and not wearing or using non-issued equipment while on a two week patrol :)

I know I keep saying Soldiers and not Marines or personnel, its a force of habit. And I'm at Camp Red Cloud Korea, like my location says.
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:shrug: Gotta run now, i'll google map it later :)
 
This is so freakin ridiculous I can barely grasp it. In Nam it was common practice to take ears for trophy's and wearing a near necklace wasn't that uncommon. As for cameras it was also common to cut off the heads of a couple of dead VC, and take turns holding them by the hair in front of you for pics. It's WAR, these little celebration things are Good for moral and it really helps blow off steam. I am sick to death of sniveling little lib scum cowards sitting in their easy chairs at home judging soldiers.
 
danarhea said:
From the Halls of Montezuma,
To the shores of Tripoli;
We piss on our nations enemies
In the air, on land, and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our skivvies clean:
Do not mess around with America
Or you'll become our latrine.

:mrgreen:
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If you're going to desecrate a song, at least do it right.


From the stalls of Montezuma,
......
 
cpwill said:
Well, when we get avatar robots so that infantrymen no longer have to go into combat, let me know and we can get to work on stopping it from becoming normal behavior. Until then, our ground combat veterans will be largely young men who themselves risk death or dismemberment, and will react as human beings have to those stresses since the dawn of time.



:) and all soldiers love and respect their chain of command, and are sure that their leadership has their best interests at heart. Perhaps they could celebrate with a checkers tournament? cmon man.

We had a suicide attack once by three guys chucking grenades and wearing vests (well, I say 'we', but I was part of the QRF), the first two guys were ventilated by everyone turning and firing en masse (one wounded an IP), at which point the third guy decided that he was maybe less dedicated to The Jihad than he had thought he was, and turned to run. He hopped a wall, accidentally triggering his own vest, and body parts showered back over. :D It was pretty hilarious. One of the parts that came back was an arm from the elbow down - which guys picked up and shook hands with, challenged each other to duels, etc. Their Lt let them for a while until it was time to put a lid on it - which was the right call. If you don't let guys blow off steam after a fight, you will find that they bottle and can explode in manners much worse than pissing on dead people.



you are a combat psychiatrist?



indeed. very naughty. then you can explain to them the importance of maintaining proper grooming habits and not wearing or using non-issued equipment while on a two week patrol :)



:shrug: Gotta run now, i'll google map it later :)
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If only they hadn't run the video camera.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
This is so freakin ridiculous I can barely grasp it. In Nam it was common practice to take ears for trophy's and wearing a near necklace wasn't that uncommon. As for cameras it was also common to cut off the heads of a couple of dead VC, and take turns holding them by the hair in front of you for pics. It's WAR, these little celebration things are Good for moral and it really helps blow off steam. I am sick to death of sniveling little lib scum cowards sitting in their easy chairs at home judging soldiers.
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Well, it's not the snivelling little lib scum cowards who are investigating the incident and being expected to charge these Marines, it's the Department of Defense and the Marine Corps :shrug: So I guess they have a problem with it too.
 
Ockham said:
That's about right - problem is these guys are going to be cruicified not only by the Marines, but by the media and everyone else. People forget these are adrenaline pumped kids for the most part... kids do stupid **** - the stupidest being they recorded it. All time dumb.
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Oh yeah, they are probably done in the service, and while it is sad, it is also predictable. I got briefed I dunno how many times on essentially "thou does not create bad publicity". When I was in, our biggest negative publicity item was the Tailhook scandal. Admiral Dunleavy, the senior aviator in the navy at the time, lost his job over that and for precisely that reason. We had a handful of pilots at Tailhook that year, and to say they where sweating bullets would put it mildly. One of them was Dunleavy's son, who got off clean himself despite us enlisted folks fervent wishes(guy was a dick).
 
sawyerloggingon said:
This is so freakin ridiculous I can barely grasp it. In Nam it was common practice to take ears for trophy's and wearing a near necklace wasn't that uncommon. As for cameras it was also common to cut off the heads of a couple of dead VC, and take turns holding them by the hair in front of you for pics. It's WAR, these little celebration things are Good for moral and it really helps blow off steam. I am sick to death of sniveling little lib scum cowards sitting in their easy chairs at home judging soldiers.
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It is no longer the 60's and 70's. We lost Vietnam. It is not cowardice to judge actions. I did my time in the service and at war.
 
Redress said:
It is no longer the 60's and 70's. We lost Vietnam. It is not cowardice to judge actions. I did my time in the service and at war.
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No we didn't, but that's no surprise that you think we did.
 
apdst said:
No we didn't, but that's no surprise that you think we did.
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not-this-again.jpg
 
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