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Thread: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm
    You see, TNAR and Higgins are all about the "but we caused it!". They are blaming the US for the actions of the Taliban. Yet, when the Marines do something uncooth... do we hear the same?
    Let me make a few salient points for you so there is no misunderstanding of "who" caused what.

    The U.S. established a military presence in Saudi Arabia. Some people considered this blasphemous and detonated bombs at said base. Who caused what? Doesn't matter. This is a cause and effect.

    Some terrorists allegedly destroyed the Twin Towers. The U.S. retaliated on the suspected originating parties. Who caused what? Doesn't matter. This is cause and effect.

    There is a cause (or multiple causes) for each and every effect. The question you need to ask is why would someone want to attack the U.S.? OBL has said very clearly for his entire campaign what his reasons were and it certainly had nothing to do with our way of life. As I said earlier, this has absolutely nothing to do with justification and simply identifies cause and effect. It would do you well to take an impartial look at these events as undue emotion clouds your clarity.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It is unimportant if some in this thread think it will, and more important if the terrorists think it does.
    Why do you fee its important what terrorists think?

    Isn't it more important what the western democracies think?

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Let me make a few salient points for you so there is no misunderstanding of "who" caused what...

    Who caused what? Doesn't matter...

    Some terrorists allegedly destroyed the Twin Towers. The U.S. retaliated on the suspected originating parties...

    Who caused what? Doesn't matter.
    Those are your salient points? Holy crap.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 01-21-12 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Those are your salient points? Holy crap.
    Yeah... they were salient in my head until I got side-tracked and had to go do other things. Let's call them quasi-intelligible gibberish.

    The point is that cause and effect have nothing to do with justification unless you are attempting to make an appeal to pity.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Don't feel too bad. Catawba liked the post.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why do you fee its important what terrorists think?

    Isn't it more important what the western democracies think?
    You would have understand what creates terrorists to understand why pissing on the dead, hurts rather than helps, the efforts to end terrorism.

    This report (commissioned by the Pentagon) is a good place to start in your understanding:

    "The Rand Corporation, a conservative think-tank originally started by the U.S. Air Force, has produced a new report entitled, "How Terrorist Groups End - Lessons for Countering al Qaida." This study is important, for it reaches conclusions which may be surprising to the Bush Administration and to both presidential candidates. To wit, the study concludes that the "war on terrorism" has been a failure, and that the efforts against terrorism should not be characterized as a "war" at all. Rather, Rand suggests that the U.S. efforts at battling terrorism be considered, "counterterrorism" instead.

    And, why is this so? Because, Rand concludes, after studying 648 terrorist groups between 1968 and 2006, that military operations against such groups are among the least effective means of success, achieving the desired effect in only 7% of the cases. As Rand explains, "[a]gainst most terrorist groups . . . military force is usually too blunt an instrument." Moreover, "[t]he use of substantial U.S. military power against terror groups also runs a significant risk of turning the local population against the government by killing civilians.

    In terms of this latter observation, there is no better case-in-point right now than Afghanistan - the war that both candidates for President seem to embrace as a "the right war" contrary to all evidence. In Afghanistan, the U.S. military forces should properly be known as, "The Wedding Crashers," with the U.S. successfully bombing its fourth (4th) wedding party just this month, killing 47 civilians. According to the UN, 700 civilians have died in the Afghan conflict just this year. Human Rights Watch reports that 1,633 Afghan civilians were killed in 2007 and 929 in 2006. And, those killed in U.S. bomb attacks are accounting for a greater and greater proportion of the civilian deaths as that war goes on. As the Rand Corporation predicts in such circumstances, this has only led to an increase in popular support for those resisting the U.S. military onslaught. In short, the war is counterproductive."

    Dan Kovalik: Rand Corp -- War On Terrorism Is A Failure
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-22-12 at 02:11 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You would have understand what creates terrorists to understand why pissing on the dead, hurts rather than helps, the efforts to end terrorism.

    This report (commissioned by the Pentagon) is a good place to start in your understanding:

    "The Rand Corporation, a conservative think-tank originally started by the U.S. Air Force, has produced a new report entitled, "How Terrorist Groups End - Lessons for Countering al Qaida." This study is important, for it reaches conclusions which may be surprising to the Bush Administration and to both presidential candidates. To wit, the study concludes that the "war on terrorism" has been a failure, and that the efforts against terrorism should not be characterized as a "war" at all. Rather, Rand suggests that the U.S. efforts at battling terrorism be considered, "counterterrorism" instead.

    And, why is this so? Because, Rand concludes, after studying 648 terrorist groups between 1968 and 2006, that military operations against such groups are among the least effective means of success, achieving the desired effect in only 7% of the cases. As Rand explains, "[a]gainst most terrorist groups . . . military force is usually too blunt an instrument." Moreover, "[t]he use of substantial U.S. military power against terror groups also runs a significant risk of turning the local population against the government by killing civilians.

    In terms of this latter observation, there is no better case-in-point right now than Afghanistan - the war that both candidates for President seem to embrace as a "the right war" contrary to all evidence. In Afghanistan, the U.S. military forces should properly be known as, "The Wedding Crashers," with the U.S. successfully bombing its fourth (4th) wedding party just this month, killing 47 civilians. According to the UN, 700 civilians have died in the Afghan conflict just this year. Human Rights Watch reports that 1,633 Afghan civilians were killed in 2007 and 929 in 2006. And, those killed in U.S. bomb attacks are accounting for a greater and greater proportion of the civilian deaths as that war goes on. As the Rand Corporation predicts in such circumstances, this has only led to an increase in popular support for those resisting the U.S. military onslaught. In short, the war is counterproductive."

    Dan Kovalik: Rand Corp -- War On Terrorism Is A Failure
    Excellent post. Unfortunately, the video arcade mentality of too many Americans is that all problems can be solved with a gun or the US Marines. We want to shoot first and ask the Rand Corporation the questions later, and then ignore those answers if the interfere with our wanting to shoot again....

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Let me make a few salient points for you so there is no misunderstanding of "who" caused what.

    The U.S. established a military presence in Saudi Arabia. Some people considered this blasphemous and detonated bombs at said base. Who caused what? Doesn't matter. This is a cause and effect.

    Some terrorists allegedly destroyed the Twin Towers. The U.S. retaliated on the suspected originating parties. Who caused what? Doesn't matter. This is cause and effect.

    There is a cause (or multiple causes) for each and every effect. The question you need to ask is why would someone want to attack the U.S.? OBL has said very clearly for his entire campaign what his reasons were and it certainly had nothing to do with our way of life. As I said earlier, this has absolutely nothing to do with justification and simply identifies cause and effect. It would do you well to take an impartial look at these events as undue emotion clouds your clarity.
    Yes, cause and effect. Pretty heady stuff.

    The US and it's Allies bombed the crap out of Iraq and Afghanistan cause some Islamic terrorists attacked the twin towers (among other previous atrocities). The next time these bastards try something similar then the button should be pressed. More cause and effect.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You would have understand what creates terrorists to understand why pissing on the dead, hurts rather than helps, the efforts to end terrorism.

    This report (commissioned by the Pentagon) is a good place to start in your understanding:

    "The Rand Corporation, a conservative think-tank originally started by the U.S. Air Force, has produced a new report entitled, "How Terrorist Groups End - Lessons for Countering al Qaida." This study is important, for it reaches conclusions which may be surprising to the Bush Administration and to both presidential candidates. To wit, the study concludes that the "war on terrorism" has been a failure, and that the efforts against terrorism should not be characterized as a "war" at all. Rather, Rand suggests that the U.S. efforts at battling terrorism be considered, "counterterrorism" instead.

    And, why is this so? Because, Rand concludes, after studying 648 terrorist groups between 1968 and 2006, that military operations against such groups are among the least effective means of success, achieving the desired effect in only 7% of the cases. As Rand explains, "[a]gainst most terrorist groups . . . military force is usually too blunt an instrument." Moreover, "[t]he use of substantial U.S. military power against terror groups also runs a significant risk of turning the local population against the government by killing civilians.

    In terms of this latter observation, there is no better case-in-point right now than Afghanistan - the war that both candidates for President seem to embrace as a "the right war" contrary to all evidence. In Afghanistan, the U.S. military forces should properly be known as, "The Wedding Crashers," with the U.S. successfully bombing its fourth (4th) wedding party just this month, killing 47 civilians. According to the UN, 700 civilians have died in the Afghan conflict just this year. Human Rights Watch reports that 1,633 Afghan civilians were killed in 2007 and 929 in 2006. And, those killed in U.S. bomb attacks are accounting for a greater and greater proportion of the civilian deaths as that war goes on. As the Rand Corporation predicts in such circumstances, this has only led to an increase in popular support for those resisting the U.S. military onslaught. In short, the war is counterproductive."

    Dan Kovalik: Rand Corp -- War On Terrorism Is A Failure
    So you do care what the West thinks, or at least what one think tank thinks.

    The problem with Afghanistan is that Allies stayed there too long, working on the 'hearts and minds' of these primitives rather than their balls. Tell them to give up Obama and if they don't then you get heavy on them.

    That should hold true for any country which harbours terrorists. You start worrying about what terrorists think and you'll lose, which is just what's happening. OBL knew who the weak horse was.

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    Re: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So you do care what the West thinks, or at least what one think tank thinks.
    Do I care what the experts think that the Pentagon hired to assess the effectiveness of the war on terror? Of course, do you hire experts than ignore their findings?

    The problem with Afghanistan is that Allies stayed there too long, working on the 'hearts and minds' of these primitives rather than their balls. Tell them to give up Obama and if they don't then you get heavy on them.

    That should hold true for any country which harbours terrorists. You start worrying about what terrorists think and you'll lose, which is just what's happening. OBL knew who the weak horse was.
    Thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion there anonymous internet guy. I think I will go by the experts commissioned by the Pentagon.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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