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Thread: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we just had a system in effect to place people into jobs? There would be no need to subsidize unemployment, since there would be far less of it.
    We already have that. It's called the Department of Labor. Guess what? People are lazy and/or cheat the system and/or are unemployable.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    The thing is, I don't think most people on unemployment are getting anywhere near $600 a week. The last time I was on unemployment the Maximum was like $350/week. Granted, that was a long time ago, and it has probably gone up a bit since then, but even back then it was barely enough to survive on your own.

    Any savings you had would drain real quick.
    Unemployment max varies from state to state but the most common max is $600, i looked it up, which is why I used that number. I agree also that it is a drain on the budget and needs to be addressed. I am playing devils advocate somewhat here because I do have my familly to think about and if I was in the situation, I can honestly say given the circumstance I would opt for most available money, rather than go bankruptcy or foreclosure out of principle. Sorry but that is just the truth. Unfortunately our government is more concerned about floating failed fortune 500 companies than doing right by its citizens. If we went back to a mode of productivity long term unemployement benefits wouldn't be an issue.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    With all the talk about unemployment numbers, I don't know one single soul who hasn't used unemployment as a paid vacation. And that's the truth. Oh! Paid vacation and outright scam.

    One was 65 years old and decided to use unemployment as long as she could and then take her Social Security...to let it build up.
    One young woman works cash for her dad and collects unemployment.
    One decided she needed a break and just figured she'd collect until it ran out. (Husband primary earner.)

    I could go on, but this is pretty indicative to me that a whole lot of people are milking the system. Get rid of this **** and pay real unemployed people enough to live on for a much shorter period of time.
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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper View Post
    Why do we need rely on the government for helping the poor? Yes I generally show compassion for the lower class of society, especially given the fact that circumstances beyond peoples control can cause them to be misfortunate and less economically well off. Hell, even the smallest mistakes can plunge one into poverty, but everyone makes mistakes once in a while, and no one should be punished severely for little mistakes.

    Instead of relying on the government (which apparently annoys the conservatives to no end, but who cares about what they think) what if people just casually releid on each other? Don't live by yourself, live with family or friends. Pitch in together and all work part time minimum wage jobs while supporting each other in the respective household. Live a little rag-rag and cheap; the best pleasures in life, like food, sex, and people are usually very cheap or free altogether. Is your nest door neighbor having difficulty paying the rent? Lend him some extra cash and work a flexible date for paying back the money when they're ready. Establish more emotional bonds with the local community. What the government provides to the needy via systematization can also be done through simple will power and love.


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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    With all the talk about unemployment numbers, I don't know one single soul who hasn't used unemployment as a paid vacation. And that's the truth. Oh! Paid vacation and outright scam.

    One was 65 years old and decided to use unemployment as long as she could and then take her Social Security...to let it build up.
    One young woman works cash for her dad and collects unemployment.
    One decided she needed a break and just figured she'd collect until it ran out. (Husband primary earner.)

    I could go on, but this is pretty indicative to me that a whole lot of people are milking the system. Get rid of this **** and pay real unemployed people enough to live on for a much shorter period of time.
    Don't have any links handy, but am pretty sure studies have shown some/many people cavalierly take Unemployment Benefits to their duration limits. And then do magically find employment when the benefits stop.

    That was my biggest gripe when the "Federal Extended" benefits were increased to 99 frigging weeks (that's 2 years for those without a calculator handy). The old standards of 13-26 weeks sound about right to me.


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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/news/economy/unemployment_benefits_extension/index.htm

    I
    found this to be a very interesting article and before I might say extend but I tend to agree--several unemployed don't need these extensions they need to learn to adapt and build up. This is a nonstarter to get unemployment down by continuously extending the unemployment for those out of work for over a year. I mean come on a year? Jesus Christ.
    Personally, I think that government social services should be provided at the state level, not the federal level. I don't believe the states formed their compact so that people in New York could receive a dole from the people of Pennsylvania.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/news/economy/unemployment_benefits_extension/index.htm

    I
    found this to be a very interesting article and before I might say extend but I tend to agree--several unemployed don't need these extensions they need to learn to adapt and build up. This is a nonstarter to get unemployment down by continuously extending the unemployment for those out of work for over a year. I mean come on a year? Jesus Christ.
    We should help the unemployed for as long as we help businesses.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    We should help the unemployed for as long as we help businesses.
    At a 1,000 foot level sure... the question is help "how"?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Our government has failed to realize, since the days of FDR, that we will take care of each other. Churches and the like have always provided for their members. Charity organizations will provide. The gov't should not. Gov't workers who are put into these programs generally are in it to help people. However, they also earn a salary. Many wouldn't do it out of love without the salary. I don't have stats to back that. Its just human nature. I would be willing to say a volunteer at your local church is going to be much more accomodating than a paid employee of the state or federal gov't. Unemployment is a good program, to an extent. Not a 99 month extent. And definitely not to the extent that an employer pays more in unemployment insurance than they would to an actual employee, which is happening in some cases. This is the goal of the entitlement based gov't. The more people you have sucking on the nipple of gov't, the more will fight tooth and nail to keep it the way it is. A huge, unwieldly mess.
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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Our government has failed to realize, since the days of FDR, that we will take care of each other. Churches and the like have always provided for their members. Charity organizations will provide. The gov't should not. Gov't workers who are put into these programs generally are in it to help people. However, they also earn a salary. Many wouldn't do it out of love without the salary. I don't have stats to back that. Its just human nature. I would be willing to say a volunteer at your local church is going to be much more accomodating than a paid employee of the state or federal gov't. Unemployment is a good program, to an extent. Not a 99 month extent. And definitely not to the extent that an employer pays more in unemployment insurance than they would to an actual employee, which is happening in some cases. This is the goal of the entitlement based gov't. The more people you have sucking on the nipple of gov't, the more will fight tooth and nail to keep it the way it is. A huge, unwieldly mess.
    So I'm going to disagree with you here. People don't take care of each other any more and the reason is because there's no sense of community. In the long ago past, people knew each other and helped each other because they were part of their society. They met in churches, at schools, etc. The people in the community worked for a company that was in the city or town and the employees spoke and socialized with their managers and the owners of the companies. Things were done face to face. Today in comparison, more and more people reject the church. They spend more time online emailing or texting than on the phone or face to face. Many of us email each other when we sit no further than 6 feet away. Schools are larger, regionalized - kids are a name in a database. People are a name in a database and there is no personality or community any longer. Sure we might get all up in arms about some new tax and all show up at the town hall to complain but we're not connected like we were in the past. We're DISCONNECTED and so we don't take care of each other through the churches or charities.... because of that fact many (especially our liberal friends) see the gap and state that government must step in and take over. The same way government must step in everywhere.

    So what we're left with is a government that can't tie it's own shoes without spending billion of tax dollars and decades of passing new laws about the shoes and types of shoelaces which can be used, who then starts to take over general societal functions where people have decided they don't want to do it any longer or are not interested. The 99 weeks issue is indicative of this --- people who are unemployed who made 75K at their last job don't want to take a job for 40K. Why? The reason is if they take that job and need to leave, their new unemployment check is reflective of their last job which was 40K, not 75K so they get less money - so they don't want to take that job, especially if it's just something to tide them over. They'd rather sit it out for 99 weeks - the down side to that is once they're out for that long, it's even MORE difficult to get a job. The only time it works is if the person doesn't give a squirt about the unemployment and they want to work and do whatever is necessary to feed their family. More and more people would rather sit on their couch and eat cheetos, email in their online claim form that they submitted for 10 jobs this week, and collect their paycheck. It's sad that the extension of unemployment which has the best of intentions, actually drives the wrong behavior and teaches people the wrong message which is: Stay home, collect until it runs out, and don't take a job for less money than you were making or you'll get penalized if they lay you off again.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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