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Thread: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Here is an interesting thought for the left side. Of course there is the argument that if people acted more responsible and cut down massively on their expenses and such, and stopped spending as much. And it makes plenty of sense, I'm not being sarcastic or anything and that is of course what you should do. But when that many people cut back that much, it could have a negative effect on the economy, and when you think about all the people not working both the unemployment rate and the actual unemployment rate which is much higher, so those people having 500 or 300 dollars less a week, and that much less money going into the economy, will have a negative effect I think. But then again you could also argue that, if we didn't have an unemployment tax, and that money wasn't taken out of peoples checks in the first place, that money would go into the economy. BUT if we keep the tax on the upper incomes higher, their spending habits will of course not be effected by having that taken out of their income, while the extra money going to the middle will help those people unemployed keep spending without having a large negative effect as a large part of it would come from the top, but then that comes to a rights/moral argument of sorts, as is it ok to do pure wealth redistribution? tax the top and let the people on the bottom spend it? The argument could be made for that.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    As baffled as I am to find myself in agreement with Tigger, I think that is a big component to this: training programs need to be more ubiquitous.

    We have not seen levels of college enrollment that are in keeping with the size of the college-aged population. The reason is because college is quickly becoming unaffordable. And a large part of that is that government aid to public colleges has dropped by about half in the last few years. This means tuition is skyrocketing, which decreases enrollment, and in turn decreases the money colleges have to continue operating. Some community colleges are so strapped that they're actually turning people away.

    It doesn't need to be that way. It is that way because we don't consider education a priority anymore in this country, and we don't streamline our spending - so much of it is bloated and wasteful and overly complex. If we made education a priority and if the parties could come together and make a serious go of streamlining spending, we could make education vastly cheaper without adding any burden to taxpayers or decreasing availability. Plenty of countries have. And we used to.

    Getting the cost of tuition under control and implementing training into unemployment benefits is crucial. I think it's the most important thing we need to do as a country.

    On a personal level, I do hear some of you when you say some people are not willing to take the work they can find. I know a couple people like this - they used to make 6 figures in an industry that's now tanked, and they think it's beneath them to take a lower-paying job. And you're right, this mindset is stupid and they should take what they can find. Goodness knows I've worked below my skillset a lot in the last couple years. It's money. I need to eat. There is such a thing as a job that's not worth having, but that's based on treatment, not on the amount of money you make.

    But really, these sorts of people are not extremely common. Most unemployed people are really just struggling to find anything. I'm not above doing anything, but I spent 2 months looking for a steady job in Tucson and failed. I had to go back to MN to find one. Admittedly, I have a physical injury that means I can't do certain jobs, and that was a limiting factor for me. But I applied to everything I could do... and even a couple things that were questionable.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/news/economy/unemployment_benefits_extension/index.htm

    I
    found this to be a very interesting article and before I might say extend but I tend to agree--several unemployed don't need these extensions they need to learn to adapt and build up. This is a nonstarter to get unemployment down by continuously extending the unemployment for those out of work for over a year. I mean come on a year? Jesus Christ.
    I certainly agree that continuing to allow people to collect unemployment isn't helping them to get back to work. However, from a purely logical aspect, if someone on unemployment is getting say 600 a week and the only jobs they can get are less, say 500 a week, why would they, or I if I was in that situation go to work and get less money?

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    I certainly agree that continuing to allow people to collect unemployment isn't helping them to get back to work. However, from a purely logical aspect, if someone on unemployment is getting say 600 a week and the only jobs they can get are less, say 500 a week, why would they, or I if I was in that situation go to work and get less money?
    That's why I say cut them off. The economy is changing in ways that you cannot adapt to if the government simply gives you an unlimited crutch. You have to consider these people are not only getting unemployment they are also likely getting SNAP benefits as well for being out of work. It's a tough reality but sometimes you have to relaunch yourself and the government may help in the short term but in the long term it is up to the individual person to get their lives in order.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    [QUOTE=00timh;1060059506]I certainly agree that continuing to allow people to collect unemployment isn't helping them to get back to work. However, from a purely logical aspect, if someone on unemployment is getting say 600 a week and the only jobs they can get are less, say 500 a week, why would they, or I if I was in that situation go to work and get less money?[/QUOTE]

    That is the problem with some today. No pride in being self sufficient, doing what it takes to make it, and let someone else (govt/tax payers) carry me.

    I believe helping those that need a hand and are willing to help themselves. When I see statements like yours, I tend to say cut them off. Now if you were to say I am willing to work for 500 a week, it would be helpfull to meet rent/food to receive an additional 100/week. Then I think it is reasonalbe to help. but to say no, just give me the 600/wk and I will do nothing, I have no desire to help you.
    Last edited by mike2810; 12-26-11 at 11:36 PM.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    [QUOTE=mike2810;1060060070]
    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    I certainly agree that continuing to allow people to collect unemployment isn't helping them to get back to work. However, from a purely logical aspect, if someone on unemployment is getting say 600 a week and the only jobs they can get are less, say 500 a week, why would they, or I if I was in that situation go to work and get less money?[/QUOTE]

    That is the problem with some today. No pride in being self sufficient, doing what it takes to make it, and let someone else (govt/tax payers) carry me.

    I believe helping those that need a hand and are willing to help themselves. When I see statements like yours, I tend to say cut them off. Now if you were to say I am willing to work for 500 a week, it would be helpfull to meet rent/food to receive an additional 100/week. Then I think it is reasonalbe to help. but to say no, just give me the 600/wk and I will do nothing, I have no desire to help you.
    Well, let's say that I had always been a good solid worker, but I got laid off (hypothetical BTW, I am currently working) and I have a house, kids, other payments to make. I am going to opt for the most money I can get. It wasn't my fault I got laid off, and if and when I can find employment that matches or exceeds that which I was making, I would do so. BUT... I am not going to reduce my lifestyle and have my kids go with less IF I don't have to. Its just common sense here. I never said it was right for the government to continue unemployment forever, but as a person in that situation with the option to collect more money from unemployment than being employed, I am going to take it.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    if someone on unemployment is getting say 600 a week and the only jobs they can get are less, say 500 a week, why would they, or I if I was in that situation go to work and get less money?
    exactly.. a freind of mine, a single mom of two at the time, could have more money to spend if she stayed at home and did nothing. the rent was paid except for $30per month, she received all her food for free, free health care, etc.
    It would take a good paying job to match that. Also she'd then need to pay a sitter at around $5 per hour * 2 * 40.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Unemployment benefits keeps people spending, which keeps the economy moving.

    Therefore, we should keep providing benefits as long as possible.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Unemployment benefits keeps people spending, which keeps the economy moving.

    Therefore, we should keep providing benefits as long as possible.
    and "long as possible" has run out unless money is given up from other programs. (lets not go down just tax the rich road here).
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    and "long as possible" has run out unless money is given up from other programs. (lets not go down just tax the rich road here).
    I have no problem shifting funds to unemployment insurance.

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