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Thread: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    The unemployment is high but it isn't high enough that someone should be out of work for 70+ months.
    I do not know. What I do know is that it's very hard for us Americans to find jobs. What was it, every 1 in 4 Americans are jobless? [Correct me if I'm wrong]

    We need bussinesses to STOP sending jobs overseas, and we need to STOP illegal aliens from entering and taking our jobs. We have what, 20 million or so illegal aliens in our country? That is food and money taken from Americans. If I have to humble myself and work in the fields to make money to get back in nursing school, then I will. Any job, even the "unwanted and crappy" jobs that IA take, I am sure Americans are eager to have. We need to change our constitution and stop treating corporations as people, as well, because that is madness.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I do not know. What I do know is that it's very hard for us Americans to find jobs. What was it, every 1 in 4 Americans are jobless? [Correct me if I'm wrong]

    We need bussinesses to STOP sending jobs overseas, and we need to STOP illegal aliens from entering and taking our jobs. We have what, 20 million or so illegal aliens in our country? That is food and money taken from Americans. If I have to humble myself and work in the fields to make money to get back in nursing school, then I will. Any job, even the "unwanted and crappy" jobs that IA take, I am sure Americans are eager to have. We need to change our constitution and stop treating corporations as people, as well, because that is madness.
    We also need Americans to stop with this ridiculous idea that there is any job that is beneath their dignity. When you need the money, you do whatever (legal) is necessary to make ends meet. Whether that means moving to another area, taking a lesser paying job, or whatever. Until Americans are no longer of the mentality that there is a job that they are too good to do, bringing those jobs back from overseas and throwing the illegals out isn't going to make a significant difference.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    it can take a pretty long time to find work. at the height of the financial mess, it took me over nine months to find another job, and i have a good work record and a graduate degree.

    the outsource labor / import everything in order to sell it at artificially low retail prices model is a massive failure.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I do not know. What I do know is that it's very hard for us Americans to find jobs. What was it, every 1 in 4 Americans are jobless? [Correct me if I'm wrong]

    We need bussinesses to STOP sending jobs overseas, and we need to STOP illegal aliens from entering and taking our jobs. We have what, 20 million or so illegal aliens in our country? That is food and money taken from Americans. If I have to humble myself and work in the fields to make money to get back in nursing school, then I will. Any job, even the "unwanted and crappy" jobs that IA take, I am sure Americans are eager to have. We need to change our constitution and stop treating corporations as people, as well, because that is madness.
    Well if the unemployment by government grading is around 10% usually the past few years it is 1 out of 10 Americans. Realistically though it is 15% as in those not looking or those that do not claim. Of course, that has all dipped down thanks to seasonal hiring, but this dip is far greater than the last 2 years so it might actually stick some. I could not agree with you more about sending jobs overseas. I work for a company that competes with companies in Mexico and China, and quality and craftsmanship trumps all almost always. While a Chinese person gets next to nothing I get $15/hr. As for the immigration thing I tend to agree just depends on the field. If they have a workers permit they are here fairly. Look man I've bailed hay, cut tobacco, everything and been the only white guy there with Mexicans, but those Mexicans were there legally. Obama has made laws to make sure it happens. If someone gets caught hiring illegals it is serious jail time.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    The unemployment is high but it isn't high enough that someone should be out of work for 70+ months.
    Did you mean 70 weeks?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we just had a system in effect to place people into jobs? There would be no need to subsidize unemployment, since there would be far less of it.
    It would be better of the government would stop stifling job creation.
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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Federal tax monies used to provide a minimum level of income for the unemployed is an unconstitutional program which invites moral hazard for both those receiving the assistance and those providing it. Why should an individual, merely from the fact that he paid income tax and now finds himself unemployed be subsidized for not working? It is nobody else's responsibility - not the government, not society, not the taxpayer, not his neighbor - to provide that individual with a job, with an income, or with an education. It is solely the responsibility of the individual to seek, acquire and retain these things. A country which does not promote that is instead promoting self-defeating ideas which lead to the moral decay of both the individual and the civilization at-large.

    Here's a thought for people without a job: drastically downsize your expenses, sell assets, remain out of debt and don't consider any job "beneath" you. The people receiving government assistance rarely take common sense measures like these to alleviate their own circumstances. They are not less "fortunate" than others. They are not unluckier than anyone else. They arrived in their situation - or remain there - because of the choices they make. Financial assistance to the unemployed only discourages those people from making the kind of hard decisions they will eventually be forced to make anyway. Much as no bank is too big to fail, no individual is too small to fail either. Welfare, in all its forms, is wasteful and corrupting whether the money lands in a bank vault or a family checking account.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    The unemployment is high but it isn't high enough that someone should be out of work for 70+ months.
    The recent recession was not a typical cyclical event, largely driven by inventory imbalances. It was a structural event and its ramification will play out for years to come. Many jobs e.g., in construction, will not return anytime soon.

    Indeed, if one looks at the October data (latest date for which job openings data is available), one finds:

    3.3 million job openings (Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey Home Page)

    In October, there were 13.897 million unemployed workers (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/arch...t_12022011.pdf)

    That means there were 4.2 unemployed workers for every job opening. That does not even take into consideration issues such as job requirements-skills mismatches, location of jobs vs. location of unemployed, etc.

    With such a high ratio of unemployed workers to job openings, it is no surprise that in October, 42.4% of unemployed workers had been unemployed for 27 weeks or longer.

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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we just had a system in effect to place people into jobs? There would be no need to subsidize unemployment, since there would be far less of it.
    We had the NRA (etc) and it was ruled unconstitutional. . . people feared it would lead us towards Facism:
    By the time NRA ended in May 1935, industrial production was 55% higher than in May 1933. On May 27, 1935, the NRA was found to be unconstitutional by a unanimous decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of Schechter v. United States. On that same day, the Court unanimously struck down the Frazier-Lemke Act portion of the New Deal as unconstitutional. Libertarian Richard Ebeling believes these and other rulings striking down portions of the New Deal prevented the U.S. economic system from becoming a planned economy corporate state.[52] Governor Huey Long of Louisiana said, "I raise my hand in reverence to the Supreme Court that saved this nation from fascism."[53]
    However - many states can and do operate unemployment agencies that function as temp agencies to find people a place of employment based on their skills. It cannot be done by the Federal government but it can be done in measure by State Governments as they see fit.

    The flaw in everyone's approach is that theyr'e expecting the federal government to employ people and solve this problem.
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    Re: How Long Should We Help the Unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I'm all for a system similar to what Wisconsin has been using for the past few years.....

    Anyone coming into the system would be classified based on their education and job skills. Over a period of time (six months to a year) they would be offered educational and job training programs to bring them to a minimum of a GED level education and some job skill (if necessary). At the point they are deemed both educated and skilled they should be given 26 weeks to find employment or they get cut off completely. During those 26 weeks they should be required to check in weekly to ensure they are actively seeking employment. Those check-ins would also allow the administration to provide them with information on potential job opportunities with their skills.... IN OTHER AREAS OF THE COUNTRY.
    This sounds like a really good idea actually. We have way too many unskilled workers demanding to be paid to make things a 10 year old in Malaysia can do. What we need is a more educated work force like the Japanese.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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