• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Atheist messages displace CA park nativity scenes

Removable Mind said:
The importance lies in the ignorance people have about atheism.
Click to expand...

I think most of us know what atheism is. If you break down the word it is self explanatory.
Atheism is very simple. It's people who subscribe to the scientific explanation of the origin of the universe.
Click to expand...

No, that's not what it means at all. You have been misinformed. It means "someone who denies the existence of god". Literally without God. It has nothing to do with science.

It's not about communism, perversions, the freedom to live our their lives in an amoral way...etc. In fact, most atheists have the highest regard for the preservation of life and liberty. They don't look to get a reprieve in a confession booth.
Click to expand...

If there is anyone denying atheists the right to live their lives their own way then lets look at it. But that problem, if there is one, has not been pointed out,
But I must say, religious persecution, since its beginning, has taken it's toll on many more than just atheists. They don't seem to discriminate when it comes to persecution of those who belief differently. And what really makes it worse is that there are way many more who do believe in a religion who turn on each others as infidels outside their own faith.
Click to expand...
Certainly there is historical evidence of religious wrong doings (and atheistic) and we can see that in cases in Islam today. But there is not much interest , as far as I can tell, that is preventing Muslims in the western world from celebrating Ramadan or trying to shut down any of their celebrations.

Your decision to believe what you will is of no consequence to me unless your beliefs are manifested into inappropriate behaviors that in some serious manner negatively effect others.
Click to expand...

I have no interest in shutting down the celebrations of atheists or Christians because that is "inappropriate" and infringes on their rights. It is terribly small minded and an intrusion on the rights and freedoms of others to celebrate their beliefs in whatever way they might peacefully choose.
Click to expand...
 
Grant said:
I think most of us know what atheism is. If you break down the word it is self explanatory.


No, that's not what it means at all. You have been misinformed. It means "someone who denies the existence of god". Literally without God. It has nothing to do with science.



If there is anyone denying atheists the right to live their lives their own way then lets look at it. But that problem, if there is one, has not been pointed out,

Certainly there is historical evidence of religious wrong doings (and atheistic) and we can see that in cases in Islam today. But there is not much interest , as far as I can tell, that is preventing Muslims in the western world from celebrating Ramadan or trying to shut down any of their celebrations.



I have no interest in shutting down the celebrations of atheists or Christians because that is "inappropriate" and infringes on their rights. It is terribly small minded and an intrusion on the rights and freedoms of others to celebrate their beliefs in whatever way they might peacefully choose.
Click to expand...
Your last point is exactly what most of us have been trying to make. It's not infringement on an Athiests right to display religious symbols during a holiday, it's not even infringement to display Athiest messages during a holiday. What is crap is purposefully crowding out the religious during the holiday and then mocking the beliefs while doing so.
Click to expand...
 
Manc Skipper said:
Atheism is a lack of belief in a God or Gods. It has nothing to do with science, which is neither a belief nor a lack of one.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I'll keep this quote for use in the future.

It's also interesting because it seems atheists have tried to take credit for the successes of science, but that's for another thread.
 
Removable Mind said:
Z...lets go back to my explanation, which very clear. There's not an ounce of condescending attitude expressed anywhere in my post. TO REPEAT:
Click to expand...

Thank you for highlighting the point you're seeking to focus on.

It still doesn't explain to me why you think its important that Athiests got all 21 of the 21 spots instead of just 18 of the 21, unless you're feeling that putting up a nativity or other christmas decoration is an "inappropriate behavior" that in a "serious manner negatively effects others".

That's where my confusion is.

As to the last line, that's part of what I'm saying however. Actions like these athiests have taken are the type of thing that causes negative sentiment by the public towards athiests which leads to them potentially doing things that negatively effect others (the others specifically being athiests). These type of actions don't work towards the hope of acceptance and understanding for all types of faiths or beliefs of philosophies, but rather works towards further putting them at odds between each other.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Atheism is a lack of belief in a God or Gods. It has nothing to do with science, which is neither a belief nor a lack of one.
Click to expand...

When you start at the question of creation, there's only two places to look to. Si, or no? You solve one...the other disappears.

The "lack of" or "non-belief" has risen out of the belief that the universe wasn't created by an entity, regardless of whatever you want to call it. There's only one other contender outside of a supernatural being that offers an explanation about our origin, which is science. I choose the latter.

After all, the religious subscribers start at creation and go beyond what we know as life. Dogmas have been exponentially constructed from the point of creation and have built their own morals, values, and traditions that some want to impose on all who inhabit the planet. That's not what science is about.

People would have created the same type of laws on crimes against humanity had religion never existed. It's called common sense and survival tactics that are against violence and destruction.

As Jefferson once said, "Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason and the mind becomes a wreck."
 
Zyphlin said:
Indeed, just like the average Republican/Democrat that's very vocal can be JUST as annoying a vocal Ron Paulite. The difference is, because the Republican/Democrats are the "norm" and the "majority" most people have enough experience with ones they know to be Republicans/Democrats that they don't judge those Republicans/Democrats based on their most vocal crazies. Paul fans, unfortunately, are not the norm...there aren't a ton of them...most people don't know a bunch of people who are Paul fans that aren't also the very vocal types, and thus the vocal types become the only real measuring stick those people have.

Similarly...most people know Christians and religious folks. They are far and away the norm and the majority. People are familiar with dozens upon dozens or even hundreds of "average, benign, every day religious folks. Most don't have a ton of familiarity with athiests, and their only real reference to them tends to come from the very vocal of the bunch.

Its not saying one groups vocal minority is worse than the other, but comparing how the vocal minority in both groups (paulites and athiests) tend to be viewed, and do their side no favors, by the masses due to the realities of the situations around them.



Its a weird sort of thing. I think people want to be special, while at the same time I think they want to be normal and to "belong" as well. I think religion actually fits more into the latter scope of things. To be frank, I think athiesm by and large far more into the first grouping rather than the second.



Some perhaps. I think by and large people are generally less upset about blatant "lack of belief" an individual may have and more upset with blatant minimizing/belittling of faith other people have. I don't see a lot of people getting upset because someone goes "I Don't believe in god!", I see a fair bit more get upset for someone going "People are foolish to believe in a god!"



Absolutely. Never suggested otherwise.
Click to expand...

No, it's atheism that awakens a person to how they are NOT special. Hence the empty boxes for display.
 
evanescence said:
No, it's atheism that awakens a person to how they are NOT special. Hence the empty boxes for display.
Click to expand...

And thus we go back to you making an assertion that "nothing" is somehow an athiest message, and therefore I guess we're being "assulted" (as some people, not necessarily you, like to suggest is the word to use in instances of religious displays) by athiest messages every day when we move around in public and see space filled with "nothing".
 
evanescence said:
No, it's atheism that awakens a person to how they are NOT special. Hence the empty boxes for display.
Click to expand...

Now how crazy is this? Actually the athiests I know feel pretty darn special because they don't have to have a god to prop themselves up with. They know they are awesome, and they know they did it on their own.
 
Zyphlin said:
And thus we go back to you making an assertion that "nothing" is somehow an athiest message, and therefore I guess we're being "assulted" (as some people, not necessarily you, like to suggest is the word to use in instances of religious displays) by athiest messages every day when we move around in public and see space filled with "nothing".
Click to expand...

Hyperbole. Those displays with "nothing" represent the fact that atheists believe in nothing.
 
evanescence said:
No, it's atheism that awakens a person to how they are NOT special. Hence the empty boxes for display.
Click to expand...

So, the choice is between believing that humans are the sons and daughters of god, and therefore all brothers and sisters, or that human beings are basically no different from ants or cockroaches or anything else that sprang spontaneously from the primal ooze.

It's a wonder atheism is as popular as it is.
 
evanescence said:
Hyperbole. Those displays with "nothing" represent the fact that atheists believe in nothing.
Click to expand...

So athiests are nihlists?

Nihilists.jpg
 
Last edited:
evanescence said:
Hyperbole. Those displays with "nothing" represent the fact that atheists believe in nothing.
Click to expand...

It could. In the past I thought that a multi-religious display that the atheists lot should just be empty. But in reality, that is likely not the real reason here. They're more likely just keeping them away from the theists.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, the choice is between believing that humans are the sons and daughters of god, and therefore all brothers and sisters, or that human beings are basically no different from ants or cockroaches or anything else that sprang spontaneously from the primal ooze.

It's a wonder atheism is as popular as it is.
Click to expand...

Theists make up 98% of the human race. Ironically, most of those people will be burning in hell after they die. :shrug:
 
evanescence said:
No, it's atheism that awakens a person to how they are NOT special. Hence the empty boxes for display.
Click to expand...

Atheism is starting to sound like Buddhism.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Atheism is a lack of belief in a God or Gods. It has nothing to do with science, which is neither a belief nor a lack of one.
Click to expand...
Science is certainly about beliefs, philosophically speaking. Atheism is also about one's belief about knowledge and evidence and about one's metaphysics. No one is simply an atheist, they are one because of their view of the evidence and knowledge and because of their view of reality, however vague or ill-thought through these may be.
 
Last edited:
Lord Tammerlain said:
And that is what political correctness boils down to

Being polite. Refering to someone by the terminology that they perfer rather then saying something that is insultive to them. It is allowing people to practice their beliefs generally freely provided that it does not negatively and directly affects someone elses believes

The athiests in this case were politically incorrect, they decided to be dickish. Just like openly calling someone of a particular ethnic group a term that many find offensive, just because you dont want to be politically correct.
Click to expand...
Political correctness may sometimes bear similarities to manners and politeness, but they are certainly not the same thing. Political correctness is based on a specific, if somewhat vague, ideology and belief system. One we all have a notion of, even if we can't succinctly state it. Politeness is basic social necessity and a basic respect for other human beings. It has nothing to do with overindulging stupid positions or beliefs, but in not acting rudely or stupidly. Not pushing in front in a queue or saying please and thank you are not political correctness.

One might suggest additional proof, beyond common sense, for this position is that while political correctness has increased in recent decades (indeed it only began, really, a handful of decades ago), manners and politeness has tended to decrease.
 
Last edited:
lpast said:
Ah the same familiar expected, no one hates christmas denial crowd....every year sameOsameO
Click to expand...

?? Who exactly belongs to this "denial crowd?"
 
Wessexman said:
Science is certainly about beliefs, philosophically speaking. Atheism is also about one's belief about knowledge and evidence and about one's metaphysics. No one is simply an atheist, they are one because of their view of the evidence and knowledge and because of their view of reality, however vague or ill-thought through these may be.
Click to expand...

Absolute poppycock. Being an "atheist" is quite simply not believing in God or gods. That's all it is. Atheists believe in lots of things, just as all inviduals do. We just don't believe there is an invisible, all-powerful diety in the sky listening to the individual prayers of 6 billion earthings. :shrug: Any other presumptions about "atheists" as a group are nothing more than stereotypical garbage.
 
Wessexman said:
Science is certainly about beliefs, philosophically speaking. Atheism is also about one's belief about knowledge and evidence and about one's metaphysics. No one is simply an atheist, they are one because of their view of the evidence and knowledge and because of their view of reality, however vague or ill-thought through these may be.
Click to expand...

Now I'm not an atheist, but this is nothing but meaningless BS. Care to be more specific?
 
Last edited:
StillBallin75 said:
Now I'm not an atheist, but this is nothing but meaningless BS. Care to be more specific?
Click to expand...
They are atheists because they don't believe there is evidence and knowledge either enough to prove, or make it probable, that theism is correct or this evidence and knowledge shows it is incorrect; they believe this evidence and knowledge rather points to or proves another view of reality(even if in this regard they are only saying a reality free of God or where the evidence seems to point that way or at least does not prove God or make him likely in their view). This should be obvious, that some of the irreligious react hostility to it is quite telling. I suppose some of it has to do with the wish to stay entirely negative, out of fear they might ever have to specify their worldview. The obvious fact that making negative statements about reality, evidence and knowledge entails their positive corollaries seems to have slipped their minds, perhaps intentionally.
 
Last edited:
Wessexman said:
They are atheists because they don't believe there is evidence and knowledge either enough to prove, or make it probable, that theism is correct or this evidence and knowledge shows it is incorrect; they believe this evidence and knowledge rather points to or proves another view of reality(even if in this regard they are only saying a reality free of God or where the evidence seems to point that way or at least does not prove God or make him likely in their view). This should be obvious, that some of the irreligious react hostility to it is quite telling. I suppose some of it has to do with the wish to stay entirely negative, out of fear they might ever have to specify their worldview. The obvious fact that making negative statements about reality, evidence and knowledge entails their positive corollaries seems to have slipped their minds, perhaps intentionally.
Click to expand...

Yep, meaningless BS. It boils down to "see, atheists are jerks, and the proof is in how they always complain when I call them jerks!"
 
Wessexman said:
Science is certainly about beliefs, philosophically speaking. Atheism is also about one's belief about knowledge and evidence and about one's metaphysics. No one is simply an atheist, they are one because of their view of the evidence and knowledge and because of their view of reality, however vague or ill-thought through these may be.
Click to expand...

A-theism is by definition "lack of-theism". Others may wish to impose their unfounded assumptions as to the reasons but the actual reasons are as varied as the individual atheists.
 
Atheism is an active belief that there is no god.
Agnosticism is an admission that one doesn't know whether or not god exists.
Theism is the belief that there is a god, whether or not one believes in a particular religion.

Beyond that, there are literally thousands of religions claiming to know about one god or another. Talk to one of their adherents, and they'll tell you that they know all about god, the afterlife, and so on. The problem is, if you talk to someone who believes in one of those other thousands of religions, you'll get an equally confident, but different, answer.

So, who is right?

I don't think we'll ever know in this life, but that's just me.
 
Wessexman said:
They are atheists because they don't believe there is evidence and knowledge either enough to prove, or make it probable, that theism is correct or this evidence and knowledge shows it is incorrect; they believe this evidence and knowledge rather points to or proves another view of reality(even if in this regard they are only saying a reality free of God or where the evidence seems to point that way or at least does not prove God or make him likely in their view). This should be obvious, that some of the irreligious react hostility to it is quite telling. I suppose some of it has to do with the wish to stay entirely negative, out of fear they might ever have to specify their worldview. The obvious fact that making negative statements about reality, evidence and knowledge entails their positive corollaries seems to have slipped their minds, perhaps intentionally.
Click to expand...

I'm really trying not to be rude, but once again you're typing a lot of words but not really saying anything.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Atheism is an active belief that there is no god.
Agnosticism is an admission that one doesn't know whether or not god exists.
Theism is the belief that there is a god, whether or not one believes in a particular religion.

Beyond that, there are literally thousands of religions claiming to know about one god or another. Talk to one of their adherents, and they'll tell you that they know all about god, the afterlife, and so on. The problem is, if you talk to someone who believes in one of those other thousands of religions, you'll get an equally confident, but different, answer.

So, who is right?

I don't think we'll ever know in this life, but that's just me.
Click to expand...


Indeed. If it turns out I'm wrong about my disbelief, I'll be standing before the big man himself saying, "Well, this is awkward." :mrgreen:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom