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Atheist messages displace CA park nativity scenes

Redress said:
Not about trivial ****. I sure as hell did not make a whiny thread about trivial ****.
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So wait, have you now switched from your assumption presented as fact that the people in the OP were complaining because they "lost their monopoly" and now have floundered in finding a new target to attack and your argument is instead attacking those in this thread for talking about an issue on debate board because they're mad that some religious group "lost their monopoly".

Or, if you're still talking about the people talked about in the OP...what the **** does you starting a thread or not matter in relation to that and to the notion that you were making a ridiculous suggestion that somehow because someone has the right to do something then it shouldn't be complained about or spoken negatively about.
 
Zyphlin said:
Its only clear because in your fervent hope and desire to criticize the religious you seem to continually miss that people have even pointed out that in the quote you use to continue your own "crying" that they state clearly the issue isn't "putting out the there message" but rather that they are taking up multiple spots with NOTHING in them.
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The fact that you don't like their displays isn't a reason for them to be taken down.
 
Redress said:
No one has claimed it was an effective campaign. Again, we see the difference in attitudes here. A drawing was held, people where able to do what they wanted with the slots they won. I would accept any outcome. Christians however are upset that the result did not go their way. One of us is completely consistent. Guess who it is.
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One of you is ignorantly stating their opinion as if its fact. Guess who it is
 
Zyphlin said:
So wait, have you now switched from your assumption presented as fact that the people in the OP were complaining because they "lost their monopoly" and now have floundered in finding a new target to attack and your argument is instead attacking those in this thread for talking about an issue on debate board because they're mad that some religious group "lost their monopoly".

Or, if you're still talking about the people talked about in the OP...what the **** does you starting a thread or not matter in relation to that and to the notion that you were making a ridiculous suggestion that somehow because someone has the right to do something then it shouldn't be complained about or spoken negatively about.
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If we assume your claim is correct(which I do not believe), then it is crying over trivial ****. What looks to me, considering the fact we are closing on on 400 posts, the idea that the complaint is because they did not say something sounds kinda silly. The much more likely thing, considering the OP, is that this is more of the war on christmas type crap. A religious group lost their monopoly.
 
Redress said:
Which is their right. The obvious problem is not what was done with the space, but that a religious group lost it's monopoly.
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If the atheists would have filled up all the spots and the religious were still complaining (which I would think would be fairly likely) then I'd agree with you that they need to just get over it. This isn't the case. We live in a civilized world and I expect a little human decency out of people now and then. If you get all of those spots use them or allow others to use them. Atheists like these aren't making their case any better by acting like dicks and it only reinforces stereotypes. If they really want to do some good for their cause go work in a soup kitchen for an afternoon with "American Atheists" shirts on. Fill up their spots with "Happy holidays and best wishes from American Atheists". Force people to recognize that we're no different.

I just can't say how sad I am that so few of my fellow heathen's on this forum see absolutely no problem with what was done here.
 
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roughdraft274 said:
If the atheists would have filled up all the spots and the religious were still complaining (which I would think would be fairly likely) then I'd agree with you that they need to just get over it. This isn't the case. We live in a civilized world and I expect a little human decency out of people now and then. If you get all of those spots use them or allow others to use them. Atheists like these aren't making their case any better by acting like dicks and only reinforces stereotypes. If they really want to do some good for their cause go work in a soup kitchen for an afternoon with "American Atheists" shirts on. Fill up their spots with "Happy holidays and best wishes from American Atheists". Force people to recognize that we're no different.

I just can't say how sad I am that so few of my fellow heathen's on this forum see absolutely no problem with what was done here.
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Maybe they are using them. By putting nothing there, they are representing their beliefs. Don't they have a right to do that?
 
evanescence said:
The fact that you don't like their displays isn't a reason for them to be taken down.
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1. You can't take a display down if there's no display there. That was part of the complaints the group in the OP, and others in this thread, has made. That they've got a multitude of spots with nothing in them.

2. You can dislike and speak displeasure about what someone is doing without suggesting that they should be forcefully stopped from what they're doing. You can suggest someone is acting like a dick without suggesting they should be forced to refrain from acting in such a way.
 
evanescence said:
Maybe they are using them. By putting nothing there, they are representing their beliefs. Don't they have a right to do that?
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They have a right to do it, doesn't mean it's not childish behavior. They are acting like children that don't want to let the other kids play with their toys even if they aren't playing with them. Any normal person would discourage this behavior in their child, why can't we all agree that it's bad behavior here?
 
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evanescence said:
Maybe they are using them. By putting nothing there, they are representing their beliefs. Don't they have a right to do that?
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So athiests believe in....nothing? They're practioners of Solipsism now? Do we have anything, at all, to suggest in any way shape or form that they've left them empty as some sort of representation of their beliefs or are you just drawing crap from thin air at this point? Going by this ridiculous and asinine notion, it appears that "athiest" beliefs are being "Forced on us" (using the wonderful logic that a nativity "forces" religion upon those that view it) ALL the time because there's a lot of public space that has "nothing" in it which, according to evanescense, is apparently a represetntation of athiest belief.
 
roughdraft274 said:
They have a right to do it, doesn't mean it's not childish behavior. They are acting like children that don't want to let the other kids play with their toys even if they aren't playing with them. Any normal person would discourage this behavior in their child, why can't we all agree that it's bad behavior here?
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For some people, acting like a dick is only something to point out when its either being done by a group of people you dislike or targetting a group you do like. Other than that some people prefer to rationalize it away because science forbid we ever suggest a group we get behind do something wrong or a group we love to see stomped on may actually be right.
 
As I said earlier, the complaining isn't a problem for me.

Zyphlin said:
So athiests believe in....nothing? They're practioners of Solipsism now? Do we have anything, at all, to suggest in any way shape or form that they've left them empty as some sort of representation of their beliefs or are you just drawing crap from thin air at this point?
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They won the displays fairly, as far as I can tell. And they're using those displays as they see fit. I can't prove why they chose to put nothing in them. But who cares? People must have really empty lives if they're going to cry and whine over this trivial nonsense. Can't they make their own displays somewhere else? WWJD?

Zyphlin said:
Going by this ridiculous and asinine notion, it appears that "athiest" beliefs are being "Forced on us" (using the wonderful logic that a nativity "forces" religion upon those that view it) ALL the time because there's a lot of public space that has "nothing" in it which, according to evanescense, is apparently a represetntation of athiest belief.
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I haven't suggested any such thing.
 
Redress said:
If we assume your claim is correct(which I do not believe),
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What claim? That there are MULTIPLE possable things they could be bothered by other than JUST that they don't have their "monopoly" anymore? Yeah, how CrAzZzZzZzZy of me to ask you to believe that. :roll:

then it is crying over trivial ****.
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On any kind of national stage, yeah. And if people were making that argument perhaps there'd be a different reaction. Instead you had people making idiotic statements like the religious people are butthurt because they lost their monopoly and then backing said retarded statements up with quotes that don't actually back up that statement. When posters make stupid arguments then the debate tends to actually talk about those stupid arguments.

What looks to me, considering the fact we are closing on on 400 posts, the idea that the complaint is because they did not say something sounds kinda silly.
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At this point, it seems we're closing onto 400 posts because people keep making stupid comments, going through ****ing mental gymnastics to insult the religious people in the OP while doing similar acrobatics to attack those suggesting the athiest groups in questions acted like dicks.

The much more likely thing, considering the OP, is that this is more of the war on christmas type crap. A religious group lost their monopoly.
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And if you want to stereotype, seems its equally much more likely that this is more "OMG athiests are being persecuted, quick! MUST ATTACK RELIGION" type crap. Some athiests acted like dicks but science forbid we admit that because we all know its only those ignorant belief having jackass religious folks that can be dicks.
 
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evanescence said:
They won the displays fairly, as far as I can tell.
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Agreed. There's no evidence at all that they got them through devious means, and suggesting such is rather stupid.

And they're using those displays as they see fit.
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Indeed, seemingly in a way that I personally think is ridiculous dickish and completely tactless. They're using one display specifically to target and negatively mock a singular modern religion, seeking to use a negative assertion of someone elses belief to push their own belief rather than a positive assertion of their own thoughts (something I think in a public venue is dickish to do, whether its a Christian telling anothe religion they're going to burn in hell or they follow a false god or athiests going after Christians and mocking their belief). They're using a double digit number of displays to do absolutely nothing, essentially squatting on them so they aren't used by others...again, something I find incredibly dickish and akin to the ridiculous "IF I can't have [x], NO ONE CAN!" childish mentality.

I can't prove why they chose to put nothing in them. But who cares? People must have really empty lives if they're going to cry and whine over this trivial nonsense. Can't they make their own displays somewhere else? WWJD?
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Well, I don't really care what WWJD, perhaps ask that question to someone whose devoutly Christian and it'd matter.

As to the people in the OP, I can understand being upset. This is trivial on a national stage. I can understand as a local issue being rather annoyed by this, especially with it being a seemingly long standing tradition in the town that those displays held Christmas decorations, leading to the possability that it may've been tradition for some of those complaining to traverse the park during the holiday season with family. These local things become trivialized on a national scene, but I disagree with the notion of them being necessarily trivial on a local level.

As to trivial for us to be discussing? Well yes. But a **** TON of stuff we talk about on this forum is trivial. That's nothing new. A **** ton of what gets complained about on here is rather trivial as well. Arguing about the trivial, to a point, is part of why boards like these manage to exist for a decent bit of time. However, for many, it seems this thread has transitioned from just talking about the OP to this strange standing of ground on peoples opinion about the action being taken in a very generalized sense.

I haven't suggested any such thing.
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You are suggesting it if you're suggesting that somehow the "nothing" being displayed in their boxes is a representation of athiest views.
 
Zyphlin said:
Agreed. There's no evidence at all that they got them through devious means, and suggesting such is rather stupid.



Indeed, seemingly in a way that I personally think is ridiculous dickish and completely tactless. They're using one display specifically to target and negatively mock a singular modern religion, seeking to use a negative assertion of someone elses belief to push their own belief rather than a positive assertion of their own thoughts (something I think in a public venue is dickish to do, whether its a Christian telling anothe religion they're going to burn in hell or they follow a false god or athiests going after Christians and mocking their belief). They're using a double digit number of displays to do absolutely nothing, essentially squatting on them so they aren't used by others...again, something I find incredibly dickish and akin to the ridiculous "IF I can't have [x], NO ONE CAN!" childish mentality.



Well, I don't really care what WWJD, perhaps ask that question to someone whose devoutly Christian and it'd matter.

As to the people in the OP, I can understand being upset. This is trivial on a national stage. I can understand as a local issue being rather annoyed by this, especially with it being a seemingly long standing tradition in the town that those displays held Christmas decorations, leading to the possability that it may've been tradition for some of those complaining to traverse the park during the holiday season with family. These local things become trivialized on a national scene, but I disagree with the notion of them being necessarily trivial on a local level.

As to trivial for us to be discussing? Well yes. But a **** TON of stuff we talk about on this forum is trivial. That's nothing new. A **** ton of what gets complained about on here is rather trivial as well. Arguing about the trivial, to a point, is part of why boards like these manage to exist for a decent bit of time. However, for many, it seems this thread has transitioned from just talking about the OP to this strange standing of ground on peoples opinion about the action being taken in a very generalized sense.



You are suggesting it if you're suggesting that somehow the "nothing" being displayed in their boxes is a representation of athiest views.
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Truthfully, I can't tell you their motives, and I think it's rather presumptuous to be so sure about them. Perhaps they are trying to be dicks, or perhaps they are trying to make a point about their own beliefs. Personally, I think it's both. Nevertheless, they have a right to that expression. And people need to find more important things to focus on. Especially these christians. Instead of whining about something that is trivial, they should go about their lives doing god's work. You know, feeding the homeless and spreading the Word.
 
evanescence said:
Truthfully, I can't tell you their motives, and I think it's rather presumptuous to be so sure about them.
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I can only make guesses at their motives, I have no way of knowing them for sure. However, ones motivations don't have to be dickish for the action to still be such.

Perhaps they are trying to be dicks, or perhaps they are trying to make a point about their own beliefs. Personally, I think it's both. Nevertheless, they have a right to that expression.
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I don't know if they were trying to be or not, though I do think its likely the former. However, whether it was their intent or not, their actions sure seem to be dickish in their outcome. However, they absolutely have the right to be assholes and to continue to provide further and further positive examples of athiesm.

You know what I've actually just come to realize...

Athiests are the religious equivilent of Ron Paul fans. There's not a lot of them, and the majority of people look at them negatively due to the stereotype that has formed of them. There's a fair amount of completely reasonable and wonderful ones, but it seems the vast majority of the vocal ones are people who play into the stereotype to a T and by and large drive more people away then bring them into the fold. Those vocal ones tend to think they're better than everyone else, that anyone not thinking like them is an idiot, that there's some grand conspiracy against them, and that their view is the only reasonable one and everyone else are idiots for thinking differently.

Athiesism is the Ron Paul of the belief world.....

Suddenly they make SO much more sense to me.

In the wonderfully delicious ironic twist, Redress is a pseudo-Ron Paulite...

And people need to find more important things to focus on. Especially these christians. Instead of whining about something that is trivial, they should go about their lives doing god's work. You know, feeding the homeless and spreading the Word.
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Again, local story. Don't have a huge issue with it. I'm pretty sure being annoyed about these people being dicks and speaking with a reporter for a bit of time isn't significantly hampering their ability to do other things like feeding the homeless if they want.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Couple of questions here for people accusing the christians of being hurt for losing a monopoly.
1) If a group of christians decided to invade an atheist convention with large posters saying "all heathens rot in hell", "you're all unworthy", and then started to treat the attendees as if they are stupid and their beliefs are invalid and ridiculous what would you feel? I want you to remember that this would be targeting the atheist belief during their time, much like what these sub-human pricks did in this case.
2) If said convention meets every year and does the same thing in the same location, but the christians ponied up more money to insure that doesn't get to happen just to "prove a point", what would you feel? I want you to remember, traditions mean things to people, and holidays are off limits to decent human beings. Read into that what you will.
3) If other christians excused the above two and said "well, they're just pissed because we offered our view and they just wanted to keep their monopoly" what would be your response? I want you to remember, I would take up for the people displaced from their time and attack the people targeting them. But if it happens in the future I may decide not to do that since your side decided to condone what is being done here.
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So how would atheists feel if theists were dicks to them? Well that's pretty much been the standard operation for awhile. Which, ok, it's better than being killed which would have happened in the past; so we're on the up swing with them just being dicks. But still it would be a dick move and people would probably say "that's a dick move", and some will have an argument like is being held in this thread. And that's about it.
 
roughdraft274 said:
They have a right to do it, doesn't mean it's not childish behavior. They are acting like children that don't want to let the other kids play with their toys even if they aren't playing with them. Any normal person would discourage this behavior in their child, why can't we all agree that it's bad behavior here?
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Someone is acting like a child when expressing their religious beliefs.

Is that news?
 
Ikari said:
So how would atheists feel if theists were dicks to them? Well that's pretty much been the standard operation for awhile. Which, ok, it's better than being killed which would have happened in the past; so we're on the up swing with them just being dicks. But still it would be a dick move and people would probably say "that's a dick move", and some will have an argument like is being held in this thread. And that's about it.
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Ah, so you don't like people ****ting on your beliefs so you choose to **** on their beliefs during their holidays. Yeah that will win sympathy, especially considering you aren't even getting payback on the people ****ting on your beliefs but rather "firing blind". Sorry, but you can't attack innocent people and use the "well they did it first" defense.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Ah, so you don't like people ****ting on your beliefs so you choose to **** on their beliefs during their holidays. Yeah that will win sympathy, especially considering you aren't even getting payback on the people ****ting on your beliefs but rather "firing blind". Sorry, but you can't attack innocent people and use the "well they did it first" defense.
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I don't even know what the hell you are talking about. I just commented that theists being dicks is standard operating procedure and that it's better in than in the past. Additionally, I said that if we did this in reverse the result would be much like the result of this case. Most people will say "that's a dick move" and move on. Others will make a thread on an internet forum and bitch about it endlessly. That's it. Well I suppose it depends on the specifics of the "crowding out", if it's done legally then it would be as I said. Illegally and there's probably a few other issues which would arise.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Ah, so you don't like people ****ting on your beliefs so you choose to **** on their beliefs during their holidays. Yeah that will win sympathy, especially considering you aren't even getting payback on the people ****ting on your beliefs but rather "firing blind". Sorry, but you can't attack innocent people and use the "well they did it first" defense.
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I don't think he's using the "well they did it first" defense. I think he's stating in response to your hypothetical that he'd suggest that the people acting htat way were dicks, the same way he has been suggesting that the athiests in question here were acting like dicks.

Dicks can still be dicks regardless of whether or not they believe in the divine. I think that's what he was stating.
 
Ikari said:
I don't even know what the hell you are talking about. I just commented that theists being dicks is standard operating procedure and that it's better in than in the past. Additionally, I said that if we did this in reverse the result would be much like the result of this case. Most people will say "that's a dick move" and move on. Others will make a thread on an internet forum and bitch about it endlessly. That's it. Well I suppose it depends on the specifics of the "crowding out", if it's done legally then it would be as I said. Illegally and there's probably a few other issues which would arise.
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You are asserting that your side was wronged first. I disagree, in fact your side has done plenty of pushing. Again, there is no excuse for attacking anybody, especially during a time of religious celebration/reflection. You're better than excusing what this particular garbage did.
 
Zyphlin said:
I don't think he's using the "well they did it first" defense. I think he's stating in response to your hypothetical that he'd suggest that the people acting htat way were dicks, the same way he has been suggesting that the athiests in question here were acting like dicks.

Dicks can still be dicks regardless of whether or not they believe in the divine. I think that's what he was stating.
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Ahh. Didn't look that way, maybe I misread. Really if, to paraphrase former president GWB "people would just cut that **** out" maybe we wouldn't have to have these damn political wars.
 
LaMidRighter said:
You are asserting that your side was wronged first.
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That's just history. Sorry if you don't like it. I did say it's better now.

LaMidRighter said:
I disagree, in fact your side has done plenty of pushing. Again, there is no excuse for attacking anybody, especially during a time of religious celebration/reflection. You're better than excusing what this particular garbage did.
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Disagree with history if you like, no skin off my teeth. No one is being attacked here, BTW. I'm not sure what all this prima donna stuff is all about. I'm not excusing what they did either, I said it was a dick move that they should have given up the spots unused. But they didn't have to, and they didn't. That's it. It's just a group of dicks being dicks. And if it were reverse, everything here would be exactly the same with arguments perhaps reversed for some of you. But I'd be consistent in calling them jerks, and allowing them to do as they like.

For ****'s sake, it's called reading. Please do so more carefully. You're trying to read things that are not there and which are not consistent with posts I have already made in this thread.
 
Ikari said:
That's just history. Sorry if you don't like it. I did say it's better now.



Disagree with history if you like, no skin off my teeth. No one is being attacked here, BTW. I'm not sure what all this prima donna stuff is all about. I'm not excusing what they did either, I said it was a dick move that they should have given up the spots unused. But they didn't have to, and they didn't. That's it. It's just a group of dicks being dicks. And if it were reverse, everything here would be exactly the same with arguments perhaps reversed for some of you. But I'd be consistent in calling them jerks, and allowing them to do as they like.

For ****'s sake, it's called reading. Please do so more carefully. You're trying to read things that are not there and which are not consistent with posts I have already made in this thread.
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Some people did **** on others beliefs, some people still do. But for the most part the only christians I see starting **** these days are fundamentalists and some of the more fringe Evangelicals. You don't tend to see mainstream Catholics, Baptists, or Protestants doing anything but expressing our own beliefs these days though there are some. Again though, "you did it first" isn't a defense, if Athiests are supposedly better according to the snobs within the movement isn't better behavior preferable?

As well I've seen Atiests pull the "we're outnumbered" card quite a few times. Do you really think it's worth sacrificing the progress you've mentioned by pissing off the faithfull en masse?
 
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