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Thread: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    I hate to admit it, but I'm starting to change my views slightly on the insurance system. I still believe that it should be up to the individual to pay for it, but I have somewhat of a different idea.

    A small increase in taxes (for everyone) to create a fund for uninsured sick people should be instituted. A percentage of that should be spent on educating people in the need/value of insurance. A tax break should be given to those who get their own insurance. The individual states should be required to come up with a plan where pre-existing conditions can get insurance for similar rates to those who do not get it from work. Government should find ways to encourage, but not mandate, separating fringe benefits from work. One idea might be creating other types of groups to purchase together instead of corporations (ie Credit Unions offering group rates).

    Of course, this is a rough idea, but there is land between what we have now and Obamacare. I support government encouragement, but hate government mandates.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    I hate to admit it, but I'm starting to change my views slightly on the insurance system. I still believe that it should be up to the individual to pay for it, but I have somewhat of a different idea.

    A small increase in taxes (for everyone) to create a fund for uninsured sick people should be instituted. A percentage of that should be spent on educating people in the need/value of insurance. A tax break should be given to those who get their own insurance. The individual states should be required to come up with a plan where pre-existing conditions can get insurance for similar rates to those who do not get it from work. Government should find ways to encourage, but not mandate, separating fringe benefits from work. One idea might be creating other types of groups to purchase together instead of corporations (ie Credit Unions offering group rates).

    Of course, this is a rough idea, but there is land between what we have now and Obamacare. I support government encouragement, but hate government mandates.
    Seems to me that most of what you suggest is already in place. Many organizations other then employers have contracted with insurance providers for group insurance. Realtors come to mind. We already have in place a taxpayer funded health insurance plan for the uninsured in the form of medicaid or in the worst case, the mandated treatment by hospitals and other providers. The real question seems to be just what level should be provided, and to whom. Tax breaks are given to employers and their employeer for providing insurance. In the case of the employee, untaxed benefits, and with the employer, a line item cost of doing business.

    Once again, if you keep up your insurance, except in very rare instances, the preexisting condition does not come into play.
    Last edited by jimbo; 12-08-11 at 02:47 PM.

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    Government doesn't need to encourage us to do anything.

    WE need to encourage government to fix its unfunded health care promises. Starting with Medicare, working backward from Part D. In four years D alone has become more of a fiscal nightmare than SS, because of how uncontrolled and unfunded it is. If we don't fix the unfunded benefits that are bleeding the country to death, then there can be no solution to health care at all, period.

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Again, I am not arguing right or wrong, moral or immoral, compassionate or non compassionate. I just used your words, which stated that having someone else pay your bills is not freeloading, that your whole life means earlier in life, and now that making a choice to drop your insurance, knowing that you will not be able to reinstate if you suddenly need it is not a gamble. It is in this case the ultimate gamble, unless you can get someone else to pay your bookie.
    Of course, I don't think you're arguing the system is perfect.

    I may be thinking of it in a non-conventional way...but if we had histories of premium payments like we have credit scores...I think her premium payment score would be pretty decent. She's paid into a premium pool for the majority of her life. I think she's not a free loader. That's why I think there's a failing in our system. To me a free loader is someone that never pays insurance then expects to get taken care of when they have a problem. It's not someone who has paid premiums for a long period of time and in a short span doesn't pay premiums.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Seems to me that most of what you suggest is already in place. Many organizations other then employers have contracted with insurance providers for group insurance. Realtors come to mind. We already have in place a taxpayer funded health insurance plan for the uninsured in the form of medicaid or in the worst case, the mandated treatment by hospitals and other providers. The real question seems to be just what level should be provided, and to whom. Tax breaks are given to employers and their employees for providing insurance. In the case of the employee, untaxed benefits, and with the employee, a line item cost of doing business.

    Once again, if you keep up your insurance, except in very rare instances, the preexisting condition does not come into play.
    I don't disagree that much of it is in place, but it is handled abysmally and separated beyond fixing. Medicaid is not sufficient and pays an average of 10 cents on the dollar (too lazy to link, but I can find it later). That doesn't offset the costs. Most of the programs outside of employment are supplementary, but there are exceptions. Essentially, I'm saying that the piecemeal service currently provided is insufficient, unclear, and where I would like to see reform practiced, rather than mandate and punish.

    Keeping insurance isn't as easy as you make it sound. I am a victim of two heart attacks. I am starting a small business. My COBRA has expired and short of paying 100% for myself and at least 50% for a minimum of 3 employees, no one will insure me. Well, no one except the state of North Carolina, who offers a program to encourage two or three companies to offer me insurance at a reasonable rate that I am still responsible for. The other companies won't even bother to run paper work on me. Mine is an extreme example, but being denied insurance is pretty easy.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Insurance is where you pay into a plan even though there is nothing wrong with you with the understanding that if something does happen, you will then be covered.

    Paying nothing and then paying in only a very small percent after you get ill is not insurance nor sustainable.
    Yea, can I buy car insurance only once I get into an accident? Not fair if I can do it with health insurance and not car insurance.

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Starting with Medicare, working backward from Part D. In four years D alone has become more of a fiscal nightmare than SS, because of how uncontrolled and unfunded it is. If we don't fix the unfunded benefits that are bleeding the country to death, then there can be no solution to health care at all, period.
    I think the fiscal nightmare stems from healthcare costs that have inflated well beyond the world average and have well outpaced the salaries of most individuals.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    I hate to admit it, but I'm starting to change my views slightly on the insurance system. I still believe that it should be up to the individual to pay for it, but I have somewhat of a different idea.

    A small increase in taxes (for everyone) to create a fund for uninsured sick people should be instituted. A percentage of that should be spent on educating people in the need/value of insurance. A tax break should be given to those who get their own insurance. The individual states should be required to come up with a plan where pre-existing conditions can get insurance for similar rates to those who do not get it from work.
    Sounds like high-risk pools.

    What is a Risk Pool

    Government should find ways to encourage, but not mandate, separating fringe benefits from work. One idea might be creating other types of groups to purchase together instead of corporations (ie Credit Unions offering group rates).
    Sounds like the "alliances" for multiple employers to buy health coverage for their employees at lower rates under Bill Clinton's health care plan of 1993.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I think the fiscal nightmare stems from healthcare costs that have inflated well beyond the world average and have well outpaced the salaries of most individuals.
    No, you're not quite right about what the fiscal nightmare stems from. It stems from the fact that we promise to buy it, but can't fund that promise, so we incur debt to make good on it. That's the nightmare. Costs increase because they can... BECAUSE we promised it. The promise is the sickness. The cost is a symptom.

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    Re: Woman Who Attacked ObamaCare Apologizes After Breast Cancer Diagnosis

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No, you're not quite right about what the fiscal nightmare stems from. It stems from the fact that we promise to buy it, but can't fund that promise, so we incur debt to make good on it. That's the nightmare. Costs increase because they can... BECAUSE we promised it. The promise is the sickness. The cost is a symptom.
    Our cost as a percentage of GDP and compared to other countries that fund the costs via government is higher. How exactly is government fueling the costs when other governments fund comparable healthcare at a lower cost?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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