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Just Plain Wrong

Bull****. Sarah Palin ran her baby out there are 11:30pm at the RNC. Never mind the complete bull**** sham she tried to pull with Bristol...Your desperate attempt to compare Obama'a situation is just that, desperate. I swear to God, have a kid then pop off. On second thought, please don't.

Dude, I hate Palin too, but come on. A baby on stage at 11:30 pm is no big deal. Babies don't care what time it is. Did you notice how they sleep in the day and wake up at night? I think it's great that she did that. She's an idiot who should never hold public office, but that was fine.
 
Why is it in the most liberal state California all the polls said the majority of people was for gay marriage...and when it came to a vote it was VOTED DOWN...an california if not THEY most populated state with homosexuals its in the top 3.

Just proves my point that homosexuals are not "catered to" compared to the rest of the population, even in one of the most homo-friendly states.
 
Just proves my point that homosexuals are not "catered to" compared to the rest of the population, even in one of the most homo-friendly states.

Yes they are...they are given way more consideration than any other abnormal group...and they are the most obnoxious and they same the same thing over and over ad nausem like they think its going badger people into agreeing with him

ANYONE that tries to justify that this homosexual manipulated and used a boy that cant even wipe his own butt yet for her political gain..is just as disengenous as it gets...and if any one else did the same thing with a child for any other reason the same people in this thread would be appalled...this movement and its excuses are as phony as it gets..
 
they are the most obnoxious and they same the same thing over and over ad nausem like they think its going badger people into agreeing with him

People standing for their rights against a government that is driven to take them away do tend to repeat themselves.

Sorry that annoys you. It must be nice having all your civil rights intact. Just be thankful you didn't live in the 60's. The Civil Rights movement would've really given you a headache.
 
So, to sum up Empirica and Ipast's positions on SMS...

"Sick perversion"

"Abnormal"

"Gay people are obnoxious and annoying"

"They are the most blessed and respected group in America"

"The gay rights movement is phony and exploits people"

Wow, guys. Wow.
 
Yes they are...they are given way more consideration than any other abnormal group...and they are the most obnoxious and they same the same thing over and over ad nausem like they think its going badger people into agreeing with him

ANYONE that tries to justify that this homosexual manipulated and used a boy that cant even wipe his own butt yet for her political gain..is just as disengenous as it gets...and if any one else did the same thing with a child for any other reason the same people in this thread would be appalled...this movement and its excuses are as phony as it gets..

Really? Then why are their rights consistently being voted down even in quote-unquote "friendly territory" like California? People do tend to repeat themselves when they are fighting for their rights, it doesn't really behoove you to blame the victim.
 
People standing for their rights against a government that is driven to take them away do tend to repeat themselves.

Sorry that annoys you. It must be nice having all your civil rights intact. Just be thankful you didn't live in the 60's. The Civil Rights movement would've really given you a headache.

Ridiculous as most arguments for gay marriage and adoption NOTHING has been taken away from homosexuals...they just want to force what they want on everyone else....they certainly have a right to be abnormal...they DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT to force me to pretend they are normal so they can have whatever it is they want...
I did live in the 60s and I lived in the 60s and the end of the 40s...and you dont know me so any statement by you about me is bs..
Being against homosexual marriage and homosexual adoption is just that....I was waiting for some dink to throw in along with homophobe im a racist...pfffffffft to that....what gives me a headache is anyone trying to bully me..and thats what the homosexual cheerleaders have done since I arrived here...and now im done being the recipient of their sarcasm..
 
Lpast, now that you mention it, I'm sure you remember when interracial marriage was not NORMAL!
 
Ridiculous as most arguments for gay marriage and adoption NOTHING has been taken away from homosexuals...they just want to force what they want on everyone else....they certainly have a right to be abnormal...they DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT to force me to pretend they are normal so they can have whatever it is they want...
I did live in the 60s and I lived in the 60s and the end of the 40s...and you dont know me so any statement by you about me is bs..
Being against homosexual marriage and homosexual adoption is just that....I was waiting for some dink to throw in along with homophobe im a racist...pfffffffft to that....what gives me a headache is anyone trying to bully me..and thats what the homosexual cheerleaders have done since I arrived here...and now im done being the recipient of their sarcasm..

The fifth and fourteenth Amendments are pretty ridiculous, huh?

You have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

they DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT to force me to pretend they are normal so they can have whatever it is they want

Sheesh, Ipast. I'm done with you. You're a fool and a bigot. Peace, homie.
 
Lpast, now that you mention it, I'm sure you remember when interracial marriage was not NORMAL!

Not the issue here...that was not the ABNORMAL wanting the normal...now..lets get this straight ok...

Racism and the civil rights movement has ZERO to do with the homosexual pressure the population movement...
I think any one that is for homosexual marriage is a heterophobe and a racist and a narrow minded cruel person trying to dilute the normalcy of marriage for 94% of the normal population...
 
Not the issue here...that was not the ABNORMAL wanting the normal...now..lets get this straight ok...

Racism and the civil rights movement has ZERO to do with the homosexual pressure the population movement...
I think any one that is for homosexual marriage is a heterophobe and a racist and a narrow minded cruel person trying to dilute the normalcy of marriage for 94% of the normal population...

I think you've lost your damn mind over this issue.

Why would someone who supports gay marriage be a heterophobe?

What do you think the "normal" marriage is? Is it one that ends in divorce? That is the trend, you know?
 
Not the issue here...that was not the ABNORMAL wanting the normal...now..lets get this straight ok...

Racism and the civil rights movement has ZERO to do with the homosexual pressure the population movement...
I think any one that is for homosexual marriage is a heterophobe and a racist and a narrow minded cruel person trying to dilute the normalcy of marriage for 94% of the normal population...

The hell it doesn't. The 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law for every citizen of this country. It doesn't say "except gays, who must have a separate but equal classification because gay is icky". And then, of course, we have the whole, "separate but equal is not equal" ruling from the SCOTUS, which pretty much kills the whole "you can have civil unions, but not marriage" crap.

Essentially, the law is against your bigotry. And so is 53%+ of this country. So eventually, no matter how often you stomp your feet and cry out against it, you'll be on the losing side of the argument. And the rest of us, containing a sense of decency and fairness, will be waiving at you from the other side, celebrating the fact that America actually stood by her principles when it mattered.
 
The hell it doesn't. The 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law for every citizen of this country. It doesn't say "except gays, who must have a separate but equal classification because gay is icky".

Here's your issue however. The case law, THUS FAR, with the 14th amendment at the SCOTUS level doesn't support what you're saying. The 14th amendment guarantee's equal protection under the law, however it does not guarantee that the Government can't discriminate against a particular designation of people. On the contrary, the case law surrounding the 14th amendment which implimented the Equal Protection Clause actually DOES allow the government to discriminate. You can see this actually routinely, for example just looking at the issue of age we see discrimination regarding the ability to enter into contracts, vote, curfew laws, etc.

However, for it to be able to discriminate the State needs to prove that there's a certain amount of reason for them to do it and that said discrimination is related to that particular reason to a certain degree. The amounts in both of those portoins of the equatation are determined by what teir of scrutiny a particular classification falls under. For example, race at the moment is in the highest teir and requires the strictest scrutiny while age is part of the bottom teir.

As of now, the "Law" as you put it places "homosexual orientation" as part of that lowest tier as well. Meaning the state has a very low burden of proof to meet to be able to legally discriminate against them. Now, you could argue that the law is wrong and that it should be challenged by the court and that you think you'll win....that's fine and dandy. But as of now, the "Law" is not clearly on your side, at best its ambiguous and at worst its not. At least when it comes to the 14th amendment as you are focusing on in your point.

As to your 53% number, that is a bit of a half-truth in and of itself as well. From what I've seen with polls, if given the choice between simply "Gay marriage and no gay marriage", a majority of people vote in favor of the later. However, when given a choice of "Gay marriage, Civil Unions, or Neither", gay marriage rarely finishes first let alone second at times. This seems to indicate to me from the polls I've seen that the country, by and large, is more friendly to the notion of Civil Unions then Gay Marriage, but would prefer gay marriage over nothing. Unfortunately for your argument, simply because YOU don't like the term of Civil Union or you THINK they're unconstitutional (whic his yet to be seen) doesn't mean that's not an option out there currently and the public support is more in favor of that when given an accurate poll based on ALL the current options at play currently.
 
Nope...says you and your only half the opinion

The idea that everyone must conform to normal standards simply because they are normal is stupid, and obviously not reality either - didn't you see our examples mocking this ridiculous claim?
 
Here's your issue however. The case law, THUS FAR, with the 14th amendment at the SCOTUS level doesn't support what you're saying. The 14th amendment guarantee's equal protection under the law, however it does not guarantee that the Government can't discriminate against a particular designation of people. On the contrary, the case law surrounding the 14th amendment which implimented the Equal Protection Clause actually DOES allow the government to discriminate. You can see this actually routinely, for example just looking at the issue of age we see discrimination regarding the ability to enter into contracts, vote, curfew laws, etc.

However, for it to be able to discriminate the State needs to prove that there's a certain amount of reason for them to do it and that said discrimination is related to that particular reason to a certain degree. The amounts in both of those portoins of the equatation are determined by what teir of scrutiny a particular classification falls under. For example, race at the moment is in the highest teir and requires the strictest scrutiny while age is part of the bottom teir.

As of now, the "Law" as you put it places "homosexual orientation" as part of that lowest tier as well. Meaning the state has a very low burden of proof to meet to be able to legally discriminate against them. Now, you could argue that the law is wrong and that it should be challenged by the court and that you think you'll win....that's fine and dandy. But as of now, the "Law" is not clearly on your side, at best its ambiguous and at worst its not. At least when it comes to the 14th amendment as you are focusing on in your point.

As to your 53% number, that is a bit of a half-truth in and of itself as well. From what I've seen with polls, if given the choice between simply "Gay marriage and no gay marriage", a majority of people vote in favor of the later. However, when given a choice of "Gay marriage, Civil Unions, or Neither", gay marriage rarely finishes first let alone second at times. This seems to indicate to me from the polls I've seen that the country, by and large, is more friendly to the notion of Civil Unions then Gay Marriage, but would prefer gay marriage over nothing. Unfortunately for your argument, simply because YOU don't like the term of Civil Union or you THINK they're unconstitutional (whic his yet to be seen) doesn't mean that's not an option out there currently and the public support is more in favor of that when given an accurate poll based on ALL the current options at play currently.

Equal Protection under the Fourteenth Amendment


-Marriage is a civil (as well as religious) institution; married couples benefit from more than 1000 benefits under federal law
-Supporters of gay marriage argue that equal protection requires equal access to civil benefits of marriage
-Opponents of gay marriage argue that there is a legitimate rational basis for limiting marriage to heterosexual couples
-Currently legal classifications based on sexual orientation are subjected only to the rational basis test, not to strict scrutiny

On the surface, the answer might seem simple (to advocates of gay marriage, at least). Marriage is, after all, a civil as well as a religious institution. People enter marriage by obtaining a license from local authorities and—in about half of all marriages these days—they later end it by securing a divorce decree from a local civil court. In between, the United States Government Accounting Office has identified more than a thousand federal benefits and responsibilities (such as homebuyer programs and educational assistance) affected by marital status. In other words, there are thousands of laws touching upon marriage and, consequently, the Fourteenth Amendment's guarantee of equal protection under the laws suggests—to some—that all people, regardless of sexual orientation, should be protected in their right to marry.

But as a question of constitutional law, it's not quite that easy. For starters, the Supreme Court has made it clear that the guarantee of equal treatment within the equal protection clause does not mean that governments cannot ever treat different people differently. States need not permit children to drive cars, for example, nor must they allow senior citizens to enroll in grammar school. As a basic rule, the Court has said that it is reasonable for states to build categories or classifications into the laws that they pass, and in fact, the "rational basis test" is one of the standards used by the courts to determine whether these classifications are fair. Also known as the Lindsley test, this standard says that if the reasons for treating people differently are reasonable and logically related to the law's purpose, then they are constitutional. Opponents of gay marriage insist that there is a rational basis (usually, they argue, rooted in cultural or religious tradition) for restricting marriage to a relationship between a man and a woman.

But the Court has also held that certain types of laws need to pass a tougher standard than the Lindsley test; certain types of classifications within the law are more suspicious and require closer scrutiny. In particular, the Court has said that America's history of racial oppression requires that all laws employing racial classifications must be more rigorously examined by the courts. Consequently, it is far less likely that these sorts of laws will survive judicial scrutiny. On occasion, the Court has also applied this heightened level of scrutiny to state laws using classifications based not only on race but also on citizenship. And in recent decades, the Court has developed an intermediate standard for evaluating laws employing gender classifications. Statutes that treat men and women differently must be more than merely reasonable, they "must serve important governmental objectives," and the differing treatments of men and women "must be substantially related to achievement of those objectives."40

In terms of gay marriage, the critical issue thus becomes the level of scrutiny that laws affecting gays and lesbians should receive. Are gays, like racial minorities, considered a "suspect" class in terms of constitutional law? Does the court rigorously scrutinize laws impacting them? Or do laws that create classifications based on sexual orientation receive a lesser degree of vigilance, like those based on age? Should the courts then apply the lowest level of scrutiny, the rational basis test? Or do they impose an intermediate standard like the one used to examine laws incorporating gender classifications?

The short answer is that, thus far, gays and lesbians have not been considered a suspect class by the Supreme Court; laws impacting them are today subject only to the lowest level of scrutiny. But since the Court has addressed these questions only very recently, it is hard to predict whether this approach will persist too much farther into the future.

1234567890
 
Right, thanks for providing a source saying the same thing as I was basically.

All case law at a SCOTUS level thus far has homosexual orientation as a bottom tier of scrutiny classification. That can absolutely potentially change if its challenged in court. But if someone wants to talk about the "Law" as it stands now, they aren't a medium teir (such as gender) or top teir (like race) classification. That may very well change as more challenges come and they finally reach SCOTUS...but as it stands now, that's where they're at.

No one can absolutely say what the future will hold, that's entirely an opinion based notion that each individual can come up with based on their own thoughts or view of whatever facts they wish. I'm not suggesting I know the future, I was simply suggesting that as it stands now its by no means at the moment clear cut that the "Law" surrounding the 14th amendment is definitively on the side of those against gay marriage.

I personally think that the 14th amendment causes the inability for Same Sex marriages to occur to be unconstitutional, however I base that reasoning off an entirely different classification than those whose focus is singularly on "gay marriage". However, my thoughts on that are also simply opinion though one I believe has a strong backing in fact.
 
I think you've lost your damn mind over this issue.

Why would someone who supports gay marriage be a heterophobe?

What do you think the "normal" marriage is? Is it one that ends in divorce? That is the trend, you know?

You can think whatever it is you want ? but you nor anyone else makes my decisions for me..or forces me to accept yours...and that that..:) and get in line theres millions of me...
 
The hell it doesn't. The 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law for every citizen of this country. It doesn't say "except gays, who must have a separate but equal classification because gay is icky". And then, of course, we have the whole, "separate but equal is not equal" ruling from the SCOTUS, which pretty much kills the whole "you can have civil unions, but not marriage" crap.

Essentially, the law is against your bigotry. And so is 53%+ of this country. So eventually, no matter how often you stomp your feet and cry out against it, you'll be on the losing side of the argument. And the rest of us, containing a sense of decency and fairness, will be waiving at you from the other side, celebrating the fact that America actually stood by her principles when it mattered.

In your dreams...nonesense
 
Right, thanks for providing a source saying the same thing as I was basically.

All case law at a SCOTUS level thus far has homosexual orientation as a bottom tier of scrutiny classification. That can absolutely potentially change if its challenged in court. But if someone wants to talk about the "Law" as it stands now, they aren't a medium teir (such as gender) or top teir (like race) classification. That may very well change as more challenges come and they finally reach SCOTUS...but as it stands now, that's where they're at.

No one can absolutely say what the future will hold, that's entirely an opinion based notion that each individual can come up with based on their own thoughts or view of whatever facts they wish. I'm not suggesting I know the future, I was simply suggesting that as it stands now its by no means at the moment clear cut that the "Law" surrounding the 14th amendment is definitively on the side of those against gay marriage.

I personally think that the 14th amendment causes the inability for Same Sex marriages to occur to be unconstitutional, however I base that reasoning off an entirely different classification than those whose focus is singularly on "gay marriage". However, my thoughts on that are also simply opinion though one I believe has a strong backing in fact.


Everyone loves to use the Constitution as their own tool...I dont pay any attention to that either...
 
The idea that everyone must conform to normal standards simply because they are normal is stupid, and obviously not reality either - didn't you see our examples mocking this ridiculous claim?

Your trying to put words in my mouth is whats stupid...I never said they had to conform to my standard of normal...they cant...I said and will say again that they are not going to force me to accept their abnormality as normal cuz they said so...PERIOD
 
You can think whatever it is you want ? but you nor anyone else makes my decisions for me..or forces me to accept yours...and that that..:) and get in line theres millions of me...

Well duh.

Nobody makes decisions for you. Like who to marry. That's good, right?

And you don't have to accept anything, including someone else's marriage, gay or straight. You have to live with it, but by all means, don't accept it if you don't like it.
 
Your trying to put words in my mouth is whats stupid...I never said they had to conform to my standard of normal

Okaaaaay.

they are not going to force me to accept their abnormality as normal cuz they said so...PERIOD

Hey, great! Don't accept it all you want. Good for you. You told them. Now, can you get back to minding your own business instead of worrying about the sex lives of strangers?
 
Ok im done with this...theres nothing new...its just the same hash, rehashed and hashed and name calling and insinuations and constitutional quotes that dont apply and yappity yippity dooo...

Heres the bottom line...theres just as many people in AMERICA that think like me or MORE...DPS and thier cheerleading squad is not the majority...

Give all you proponents of homosexual everything a tip...your turning more people off now with your DEMANDS and overly aggressive sarcasm and abuse.... than you are endearing them anymore to your cause...

To My Friend Thorgasm...I havent lost my mind...Ive lost my willingness to listen and be docile while I listen to overly aggressive people making ridiculous claims at times and abuse and badger others that dont agree....Ive always said im for the underdog and anyone not a homosexual cheerleader on this forum is obviously an underdog...but remember thats JUST this forum
 
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