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Thread: Just Plain Wrong

  1. #811
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Isn't some of the problem the word normal? Which has conflicting connotations. People tend to use it to both express what is right or proper or natural and also simply what is the common experience.
    THIS is why I ALWAYS ask for how one is defining normal.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #812
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Normal is normal___Not like slick willy's infamous defense "that all depends on what is is".
    No, normal is relative.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #813
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is not the pre-modern West... something that no longer exists.
    Isn't this argument analogous to that you are critiquing? You seem to be suggesting that because of the change of time you are correct and have no need to examine those uncultured bores who dare to have been born before the radiant wisdom of the Captain's time.

    Outside the west would have their own concept of "normal" which fits in my philosophy perfectly.
    Outside the West they often had analogous, essentialist and realist underpinnings for their views of the normal, if defined in terms of the ideal or nature, to the pre-modern West. This is certainly the case in Islam, the Jewish thought of Moses Maimonides and Kabbalah, Persian thought and much Indian thought and in most cases seems to have filtered down to the everyday level of these traditions.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-23-11 at 04:20 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Isn't this argument analogous to that you are critiquing? You seem to be suggesting that because of the change of time you are correct and have no need to examine those uncultured bores who dare to have been born before the radiant wisdom of the Captain's time.
    Since the pre-modern West no longer exists, what they believed was normal is irrelevant in the context of the modern West. Which ALSO fits perfectly in my philosophy of normal.

    I have no doubt that Shankara and Al-Farabi are shaking in their boots to hear that.
    They probably would just be marveling at how I can break down the barriers between all cultures and types of philosophies.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #815
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Since the pre-modern West no longer exists, what they believed was normal is irrelevant in the context of the modern West. Which ALSO fits perfectly in my philosophy of normal.
    It does matter if you're using normal in terms of ideal or nature, of course. This is certainly how they would have used such a concept as normal in a discussion such as this. What they considered average though is obviously largely irrelevant.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-23-11 at 04:24 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It does matter if you're using normal in terms of ideal or nature, of course. This is certainly how they would have used such a concept as normal in a discussion such as this. What they considered average though is obviously largely irrelevant.
    When one of them is around to discuss this, I'll debate it with him.

    See what I'm getting at?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #817
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    When one of them is around to discuss this, I'll debate it with him.

    See what I'm getting at?
    Scholasticism is still the official thought of the Catholic Church. Patristic thought is heavily Platonic and very important to the Orthodox, Catholics and traditional Christians of all stripes. This traditional Christian thought itself can also be included in the perspective I'm describing.

    You can debate it with the Pope, who is an Augustinian.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-23-11 at 04:28 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #818
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Scholasticism is still the official thought of the Catholic Church. Patristic thought is heavily Platonic and very important to the Orthodox, Catholics and traditional Christians of all stripes. This traditional Christian thought itself can also be included in the perspective I'm describing.

    You can debate it with the Pope, who is an Augustinian.
    Again, what those long dead pre-modern Westerners thought was normal is irrelevant to what we think is normal. Different time periods, different contexts, different perspectives. I understand that you are enthralled with pre-modern philosophy, and that's fine. However, there is a difference between that philosophy and the real word application of the contexts of those beliefs, not those beliefs themselves. The beliefs can apply, but the context does not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #819
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Again, what those long dead pre-modern Westerners thought was normal is irrelevant to what we think is normal. Different time periods, different contexts, different perspectives. I understand that you are enthralled with pre-modern philosophy, and that's fine. However, there is a difference between that philosophy and the real word application of the contexts of those beliefs, not those beliefs themselves. The beliefs can apply, but the context does not.
    Again you really have to define which way you are using the term normal.

    As pre-modern thought defined normal, in the sense of nature and ideal, as something timeless( because anyhow time is a modality of formal existence) then I'm not sure how the context matters too much.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-23-11 at 05:04 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #820
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Again you really have to define which way you are using the term normal.
    I'm not using the term normal in any specific way, since the word normal is nothing but a relative term, based on one's own experience, unless one is using it in some form of statistical analysis.

    As pre-modern thought defined normal, in the sense of nature and ideal, as something timeless( because anyhow time is a modality of formal existence) then I'm not sure how the context matters too much.
    This is the fallacy. Normal is not timeless. This is why context matters, and the pre-modern context of what normal is, is irrelevant.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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