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Thread: Just Plain Wrong

  1. #361
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    A sect of the Mormon faith believes that having multiple and underage wives is blessed by god, even though it is not tolerated by the laws or morals of society.

    Every young mans dream is having a three way with two hot babes to brag to his buddies about but wouldn't think of telling total strangers or even his family.

    Everyday men and women get super freaky with their lover in the privacy of their homes, cars or wherever, doing things their mother told them never to do.

    Couples you would never suspect, swing at parties on weekends after dropping off the kids at grandmas house and nobody is the wiser on monday morning.

    Most of us are guilty of something we don't dare talk about in public because no matter how innocent it seems to us we're aware that others might judge us immoral.

    The morality of what people do in private is only relevant to the participants and even though there are others who might be offended by those things, it is none of their business.

    That is as long as we keep our dirty little secrets in our own bedrooms, but when we drag them into the public forum and demand acceptance, it becomes society's problem.

    Then we all must deal with the legal and social problems that arise like marriage, adoption, military, public benefits, offensive actions and behavior, etc-etc-etc__The list is endless.

    And then we must explain to little billy and susie why bobby has two daddies, mr smith use to be miss smith, and and the two ladies next door are necking on the front porch, etc-etc yet again.

    The simple truth of the matter is, society will fair much better if we remain ignorant of each others perversions and believing that all of our neighbors are moral upstanding citizens of the community.
    The simple truth that I see here is, opinions =/= facts.
    Last edited by The Mark; 12-12-11 at 07:15 PM.
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  2. #362
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    They would LIKE to have it passed legislatively. That's the purpose of the platform. They're not because, as you noted, they know they will fail.

    The point was to show that they'd like to, and it's been shown.

    Enough.
    So, even though they aren't attempting, in any manner whatsoever, to pass it legislatively, you believe they want to, so that somehow proves that the GOP in TX is pushing it legislatively.

    The simple fact is they aren't pushing it legislatively - so the evil christian righties aren't forcing this issue upon the public. Which is what started the topic.
    Last edited by buck; 12-12-11 at 07:19 PM.

  3. #363
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Had I agreed with your PC programmed position, you would have thought it logical and relevant.
    Absolutely not. If you had shown a shred of logic in your post, I might have taken your position seriously. You didn't so I didn't.

    It would be easier done than said if 'those people' would stop injecting their immorality into society.

    If legitamcy is given to homosexuals, it will open the door to all manor of perversions from marrying children to farm animals and pets, for which political correctness will take up their cause.
    Slippery slope logical fallacy along with an appeal to emotion. Once again, you show your inability to present your argument with any logic whatsoever.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #364
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I was suggesting Empirica do this, so she can actually mount an argument about nature. It is not that language has changed, simply that the term has become confused. When it is confused, it is sometimes better to clarify one's meaning.

    By the way, you are a very angry person.
    The term is not confused. The term is exact in the modern context. I am guessing you are referring to Aristotle's ideas of "natural law". That is completely and totally different from whether homosexuality is natural.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #365
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I was suggesting Empirica do this, so she can actually mount an argument about nature. It is not that language has changed, simply that the term has become confused. When it is confused, it is sometimes better to clarify one's meaning.

    By the way, you are a very angry person.
    He's right, though. Issues and concepts evolve. We no longer think the earth is flat because we've come to understand that it isn't. We no longer think that the Earth is the center of the universe because we've come to understand through increased knowledge that it isn't. The use of the term "natural" in this argument can either be a moral or an operational definition. From an operational standpoint, we now understand that homosexuality is natural. From a moral standpoint... that's up to the individual.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #366
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The term is not confused. The term is exact in the modern context. I am guessing you are referring to Aristotle's ideas of "natural law". That is completely and totally different from whether homosexuality is natural.
    No it isn't. When someone says a human act is unnatural and therefore immoral, they are, consciously or not, appealing to nature in the sense of Peripatetics(or Platonists or Christians or even Vedantists or whatever), rather than simply as a positivist reading of the 'natural world'. Or at least they are if they want to make a blind bit of sense. Nature has many meanings. When we talk about nature today we very often confuse them, we very often confuse the most spiritual and realist of assumptions with the most empirical and post-Newtonian/post-Darwinian.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-12-11 at 07:32 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    No it isn't. When someone says a human act is unnatural and therefore immoral, they are, consciously or not, appealing to nature in the sense of Peripatetics(or Platonists or even Vedantists or whatever), rather than simply as a positivist reading of the 'natural world'. Or at least they are if they want to make a blind bit of sense. Nature has many meanings. When we talk about nature today we very often confuse them, we very often confuse the most spiritual and realist of assumptions with the most empirical and post-Newtonian/post-Darwinian.
    Credit where it is due: not many can make me look up a nonslang word, but I had no clue what Peripatetics is.

    Can you show me, as I have been unable to find it, the practical difference between Plato's "natural" and the modern "natural" and how that is relevant to the modern world with our understanding of science today?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #368
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    So, even though they aren't attempting, in any manner whatsoever, to pass it legislatively, you believe they want to, so that somehow proves that the GOP in TX is pushing it legislatively.
    What's a party platform?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Credit where it is due: not many can make me look up a nonslang word, but I had no clue what Peripatetics is.

    Can you show me, as I have been unable to find it, the practical difference between Plato's "natural" and the modern "natural" and how that is relevant to the modern world with our understanding of science today?
    I'm not inclined to argue why homosexual is unnatural in this context. However when it comes to talk about scienific understandings of the natural world, it must be remembered that these are largely positivist, quantitative(as far as is possible) and analytical as well relying on certain assumptions that are still inherent in the modern, scientific viewpoint. Particularly in this last respect Cartesian, mechanistic(of Descartes through Newton and others) and empiricist/positivist assumptions are very important, as well as a very post-Darwinian viewpoint. Aristotle was dealing with nature in a very different way in his ethical work, he was looking at in a metaphysical and philosophical sense. It doesn't really have much to do with our modern scientific understandings of nature, they are simply dealing with different things. The practical differences are simply how we view nature and morality.

    If you wish to understand the Aristotelian-Thomistic, as an example of an older kind of the view of nature, then the Thomistic philosopher Edward Feser's books and blog are well worth reading. I'm more of a Patristic-Platonic Christian myself, but he is an excellent apologist for his position.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-12-11 at 07:55 PM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  10. #370
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    Re: Just Plain Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I'm not inclined to argue why homosexual is unnatural in this context. However when it comes to talk about scienific understandings of the natural world, it must be remembered that these are largely positivist, quantitative(as far as is possible) and analytical as well relying on certain assumptions that are still inherent in the modern, scientific viewpoint. Particularly in this last respect Cartesian, mechanistic(of Descartes through Newton and others) and empiricist/positivist assumptions are very important, as well as a very post-Darwinian viewpoint. Aristotle was dealing with nature in a very different way in his ethical work, he was looking at in a metaphysical and philosophical sense. It doesn't really have much to do with our modern scientific understandings of nature, they are simply dealing with different things. The practical differences are simply how we view nature and morality.
    For the very short and unsatisfying response, metaphysical and philosophical views are inherently subjective.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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