• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Just Plain Wrong

buck said:
Society makes all kinds of moral judgements and laws to dissuade some behaviours and encourage other behaviours. It is part of living in a society. What they do, is of no concern to me. When gays attempt to force their agenda upon society, society has the right to reject it.
Click to expand...

What is the "Gay Agenda"?

To be able to marry the person you love? Those actions impact others how? How is that forcing something upon others?

Honestly, the hypocrisy of the Christian Right on this is epic. The only forcing of agendas is from the right. Righties would love it if homosexual behavior was illegal because they interpret it to be repugnant having read passages from a book of Fairy Tales.
 
Last edited:
Top Cat said:
What is the "Gay Agenda"?

To be able to marry the person you love? Those actions impact others how? How is that forcing something upon others?

Honestly, the hypocrisy of the Christian Right on this is epic. The only forcing of agendas is from the right. Righties would love it if homosexual behavior was illegal because they interpret it to be repugnant having read passages from a book of Fairy Tales.
Click to expand...

Didn't you know? Every time two gays get married, a straight marriage explodes somewhere! It's cause and effect!
 
Top Cat said:
What is the "Gay Agenda"?

To be able to marry the person you love? Those actions impact others how? How is that forcing something upon others?

Honestly, the hypocrisy of the Christian Right on this is epic. The only forcing of agendas is from the right. Righties would love it if homosexual behavior was illegal because they interpret it to be repugnant having read passages from a book of Fairy Tales.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt you would find much support among christians, anymore, calling for gay activities to be illegal. Society moved on, and it will probably move on in the future on the topic of gay marriage, but not yet. I would expect your hyper partisan drivel and lack of tolerance for those that disgree with you to always be what it is, though.
 
buck said:
I highly doubt you would find much support among christians, anymore, calling for gay activities to be illegal.
Click to expand...

Seriously? You need us to show you the many examples still out there?
 
misterman said:
Seriously? You need us to show you the many examples still out there?
Click to expand...

You've just confirmed my previously expressed opinion of you. I didn't state that no one believes that gay activities should be illegal. I stated that you won't find much support from Christians in America for making gay activities illegal. If you have a poll, let me know. I'm open to a new fact. If you just have some anectdotal evidnce, don't bother.
 
Last edited:
buck said:
You've just confirmed my previously expressed opinion of you.
Click to expand...

This forum is not about your opinion of me, or mine of you. Stop talking about it.
I didn't state that no one believes that gay activities should be illegal. I stated that you won't find much support from Christians in America for making gay activities illegal.
Click to expand...

I know. I saw it. And I responded.

If you have a poll, let me know. I'm open to a new fact. If you just have some anectdotal evidnce, don't bother.
Click to expand...

No, sorry, you are narrowing the terms of the question to suit yourself now. You said "you won't find much support." That was very broad.

I'd say there are still alot of good examples of christians who favor making homosexual activity (which is a broad set) illegal. That's all I said. If that's not enough for you, fine.
 
misterman said:
No, sorry, you are narrowing the terms of the question to suit yourself now. You said "you won't find much support." That was very broad.

I'd say there are still alot of good examples of christians who favor making homosexual activity (which is a broad set) illegal. That's all I said. If that's not enough for you, fine.
Click to expand...

The person I was responding to said that righty christians want to make homo illegal because they believe the bible. The obvious implication is that he believes there are a large percentage of them that think homo should be illegal. Otherwise his statement doesn't even make sense. My response that he won't find much support to make homo illegal, should be taken in that context. If you can't follow a conversation between people, please resist the urge to get in the middle.
 
buck said:
The person I was responding to said that righty christians want to make homo illegal because they believe the bible. The obvious implication is that he believes there are a large percentage of them that think homo should be illegal. Otherwise his statement doesn't even make sense. My response that he won't find much support to make homo illegal, should be taken in that context. If you can't follow a conversation between people, please resist the urge to get in the middle.
Click to expand...

Good point - you should settle your "implication" between the two of you first, huh?
 
misterman said:
Good point - you should settle your "implication" between the two of you first, huh?
Click to expand...

He's the one that said righty christians want X. He didn't indicate that only a few righty christians want X.
 
buck said:
So, it probably wasn't a good idea if she wanted to embarass Bachman.
Click to expand...

Bachmann does fine in that department all by her pray away the gay self.
 
buck said:
I highly doubt you would find much support among christians, anymore, calling for gay activities to be illegal. Society moved on, and it will probably move on in the future on the topic of gay marriage, but not yet.
Click to expand...

Wow. You should be so proud of your progress. Why it's almost humane now. Seriously, do you realize how pathetic that sounds even if what you claim is true? And clearly it is not.

I would expect your hyper partisan drivel and lack of tolerance for those that disgree with you to always be what it is, though.
Click to expand...

You are correct about one thing. As long as those who take money from religious right wing nut jobs to support legislation that forces others to live according to Bible Thumping judgement, I will be completely intolerant of said bigotry.

Guilty as charged and damned proud of it.
 
Last edited:
Top Cat said:
You are correct about one thing. As long as those who take money from religious right wing nut jobs to support legislation that forces others to live according to Bible Thumping judgement, I will be completely intolerant of said bigotry.

Guilty as charged and damned proud of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Those damned Chritians. Hate em. Burn em at the stake. Put them to the lions. Of all things.. having the nerve to have a difference of opinion.

sounds even if what you claim is true? And clearly it is not.
Click to expand...

Then show me this supposed poll confirming that there is wide spread support amongst christians to outlaw homosexual activity.
 
Last edited:
buck said:
Yeah. Those damned Chritians. Hate em. Burn em at the stake. Put them to the lions. Of all things.. having the nerve to have a difference of opinion..
Click to expand...

Who said anything about hating them? Who said anything about burning them at the stake?

Oh wait, it was YOU.

As to the difference of opinion, that isn't the issue. It's the infliction of your opinion that infriges on the lifestyle and the rights of others. Gay behavior has ZERO impact on you. Your "opinion" and its enactment has massive impact on gay people.

Really a simple concept. Yet so difficult to comprehend for some.


Then show me this supposed poll confirming that there is wide spread support amongst christians to outlaw homosexual activity.
Click to expand...

You already argue that definitions in Webster's dictionary are wrong. As if it would matter?

And by the way, homosexual behavior is still illegal in 3 states. and several southern states still attempt to enforce arcane laws.

And there's plenty of right wing lunatics that want it illegal.

[h=2]Montana GOP: Ban homosexuality
The official party platform declares an intent to make being gay illegal[/h]
Montana GOP: Ban homosexuality - Republican Party - Salon.com
Certainly things are changing, but a very large percentage of people still think gay behavior should be illegal. Wanna bet the majority of those folks are in fact Right Wing Christians?


Gallup has been polling American adults since 1977 to learn their belief whether homosexual activity should be criminalized:
DateLegalNot legalNo opinion
1977-JUN43%4314
1982-JUN453916
1985-NOV44479
1986-JUL325711
1986-SEP335413
1987-MAR335512
1988-JUL355711
1989-OCT473617
1992-JUN48448
1996-NOV47479
1999-FEB50437
2001-MAY54424
2002-MAY52435
2003-MAY60355
Polls on most homosexuality topics show a gradual acceptance of homosexual orientation over time. The question of whether to legalize or criminalize homosexual behavior shows a curious anomaly. In the early 1980s, acceptance of homosexual behavior took a nosedive and did not recover until sometime between mid 1988 and the fall of 1989. The Gallup Organization attributes this temporary reversal to either the "conservative environment ushered in by the Reagan administration, or the beginning of widespread publicity surrounding AIDS..."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_poll2.htm#barna
 
Last edited:
Top Cat said:
Who said anything about hating them? Who said anything about burning them at the stake?

Oh wait, it was YOU.
Click to expand...

I just took your hyperbolic rhetoric and dehumanization to the next level. These awful christians having opinions you don't agree with and forcing you to follow their fairy tale book. You wouldn't fight with all your ability against such oppression? If I were a slave to forces I disagree with as vehemently as you do, you better believe I would fight back.

You already argue that definitions in Webster's dictionary are wrong.
Click to expand...
Which definition did I argue?

And by the way, homosexual behavior is still illegal in 3 states. and several southern states still attempt to enforce arcane laws.
Click to expand...

Open my eyes then. When was the last time a homosexual was arrested in the US due to being in a homosexual relationship? I mean if those laws are still being enforced, it must be pretty darn common.

And there's plenty of right wing lunatics that want it illegal.
Click to expand...
8 years ago. I already indicated there was a time that majorities wanted gay relationships illegal. I also indicated that has since changed. Do you have anything more recent? There was an 8 percent change between the 2002 and 2003 results. 8 years can have resulted in additional significant changes. I am not aware of any right wing christians that currently say homosexuals should be rounded up. I am sure some fanatics like that exist, but it's not at all common anymore.
 
Even more... 6/21/2010

the Texas GOP platform goes even further in attacking homosexuals, adding:

We believe that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society, contributes to the breakdown of the family unit, and leads to the spread of dangerous, communicable diseases. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative� lifestyle in our public education and policy, nor should “family� be redefined to include homosexual “couples.� We are opposed to any granting of special legal entitlements, refuse to recognize, or grant special privileges including, but not limited to: marriage between persons of the same sex (regardless of state of origin), custody of children by homosexuals, homosexual partner insurance or retirement benefits. We oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.
Click to expand...

TX GOP platform: Re-criminalize sodomy, make gay marriage a felony | The Raw Story
 
Top Cat said:
Who said anything about hating them? Who said anything about burning them at the stake?

Oh wait, it was YOU.

As to the difference of opinion, that isn't the issue. It's the infliction of your opinion that infriges on the lifestyle and the rights of others. Gay behavior has ZERO impact on you. Your "opinion" and its enactment has massive impact on gay people.

Really a simple concept. Yet so difficult to comprehend for some.




You already argue that definitions in Webster's dictionary are wrong. As if it would matter?

And by the way, homosexual behavior is still illegal in 3 states. and several southern states still attempt to enforce arcane laws.

And there's plenty of right wing lunatics that want it illegal.

[h=2]Montana GOP: Ban homosexuality
The official party platform declares an intent to make being gay illegal[/h]
Montana GOP: Ban homosexuality - Republican Party - Salon.com
Certainly things are changing, but a very large percentage of people still think gay behavior should be illegal. Wanna bet the majority of those folks are in fact Right Wing Christians?


Gallup has been polling American adults since 1977 to learn their belief whether homosexual activity should be criminalized:
DateLegalNot legalNo opinion
1977-JUN43%4314
1982-JUN453916
1985-NOV44479
1986-JUL325711
1986-SEP335413
1987-MAR335512
1988-JUL355711
1989-OCT473617
1992-JUN48448
1996-NOV47479
1999-FEB50437
2001-MAY54424
2002-MAY52435
2003-MAY60355
Polls on most homosexuality topics show a gradual acceptance of homosexual orientation over time. The question of whether to legalize or criminalize homosexual behavior shows a curious anomaly. In the early 1980s, acceptance of homosexual behavior took a nosedive and did not recover until sometime between mid 1988 and the fall of 1989. The Gallup Organization attributes this temporary reversal to either the "conservative environment ushered in by the Reagan administration, or the beginning of widespread publicity surrounding AIDS..."

U.S. public opinion polls on homosexuality
Click to expand...

:lol:

You found even better (in other words, worse) stuff than I thought was possible. Thanks for looking!
 
Top Cat said:
Even more... 6
Click to expand...

Did you actually read what you copied? Not sure if you noticed, but that does not state that sodomy should be illegal. Also, the USSC has already ruled and said that is unconstitutional to ban it.

Now, do you have anything more recent from Gallup? they apparently take the poll every year.
 
Last edited:
buck said:
Did you actually read what you copied?
Click to expand...

You asking me to read what I put up? Priceless. Clearly you haven't read it at all.


Not sure if you noticed, but that does not state that sodomy should be illegal.
Click to expand...

As if the legislation wasn't repugnant enough without it? Really?

You do realize this is a step backwards right?
 
Top Cat said:
You asking me to read what I put up? Priceless. Clearly you haven't read it at all.




As if the legislation wasn't repugnant enough without it? Really?

You do realize this is a step backwards right?
Click to expand...

Yes, I read the text that you copied, and it doesn't say that sodomy should be illegal. Secondly, it's not legislation. It's simply the Texas GOP's platform. So, yes. I really do have my doubts you actually read the text you copied. Lastly, it's only your opinion that the platform is repugnant. A lot of Americans agree with the TX platform that you posted - no gay marriage, no gay adoption, protection of people that, due to faith, disagree with homosexuality.
 
buck said:
Yes, I read the text that you copied, and it doesn't say that sodomy should be illegal. Secondly, it's not legislation. It's simply the Texas GOP's platform.
Click to expand...

Yeah - a legislative proposal.

So, yes. I really do have my doubts you actually read the text you copied. Lastly, it's only your opinion that the platform is repugnant. A lot of Americans agree with the TX platform that you posted - no gay marriage, no gay adoption, protection of people that, due to faith, disagree with homosexuality.
Click to expand...

It's still repugnant. And if it's not, why are you trying to deny it exists or deny it's scope?
 
misterman said:
Yeah - a legislative proposal.
Click to expand...

Um.. Yeah. Not quite. It's simply the GOP' parties platform that can provide funding to republican candidates if they agree to a certain number of the statements. They do not have to agree to all of the points. Do you have any evidence that any TX republican has even signed onto the statement that you find so objectionable. I doubt any have. It's just carryovers from a while ago.

It's still repugnant. And if it's not, why are you trying to deny it exists or deny it's scope?
Click to expand...

The text that he copied is, IMO, not repugnant. It's just something that you and he disagree with. If the TX GOP platform was to outlaw sodomy, which is not illustrated in anything he copied, I disagree with that stance. Again, though, just because it's in teh platform does not mean a single republican candidate has signed onto that point.
 
Last edited:
buck said:
Um.. Yeah. Not quite. It's simply the GOP' parties platform that can provide funding to republican candidates if they agree to a certain number of the statements. They do not have to agree to all of the points. Do you have any evidence that any TX republican has even signed onto the statement that you find so objectionable? I doubt any have. It's just carryovers from a while ago.



The text that he copied is, IMO, not repugnant. It's just something that you and he disagree with.
Click to expand...

You just have to love the arguing minutia. Who's kidding whom here?
 
Top Cat said:
You just have to love the arguing minutia. Who's kidding whom here?
Click to expand...

Facts=minutia. It's simply a fact that the republican texas platform is not legislation. It's also a simple fact that the portion on sodomy (that you didn't even copy and apparently didn't even realize it) is just a carry-over from when the supreme court ruled that it was constitutional, many years ago.

As I indicated a while ago, society used to be in favor of anti homosex laws. That has changed. In an attempt to show that it hasn't changed, you provided a party platform that is just a carry over from before that attitude has changed. You haven't provided a shred of proof that any republican has signed onto that platform point. I would be willing to bet that none have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom