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Thread: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    It's amazing how many folks here cheer the massive generational theft taking place in DC.....absolutely amazing.
    I love the smell of burning moonbat in the morning.

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    It's amazing how many folks here cheer the massive generational theft taking place in DC.....absolutely amazing.
    I find it more amazing how many cheer corporations creating our greatest threat, making the fabulously rich at the expense of their fellow americans...china all out of greed.....I find it amazing how many people on here cheer the rape of the middleclass...so I guess you can say its mutual amazement

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well yeah. we haven't seen an extension of the amount of time we are willing to pay someone not to work to this limit in your lifetime, either.

    wonder if the two are connected.
    Yeah, they are connected in the sense that the high unemployment caused the unemployment benefit extension...not the other way around. It's not like it's commonplace in this economy for employers to be unable to find workers because everyone prefers to live off unemployment. There are far more workers willing to supply their labor than there are employers willing to demand it, so until we correct that imbalance, concerns about reducing the supply of labor (e.g. people who prefer to collect unemployment instead of finding work) should not be a very high priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    alabama farmers are desperate to hire... oddly, all those unemployed people seem to think farm labor is beneath them.
    If that is the case, it's an exception to the rule. With high unemployment this is overwhelmingly an employer's market.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-02-11 at 10:19 PM.
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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It may also be related to the logistics of moving families across the country to do some seasonal work.
    no, there are plenty of unemployed in Alabama as well. Farmers report that Americans tend to show up late, do shoddy work, demand a raise, and then quit; sometimes all in the same day.

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yeah, they are connected in the sense that the high unemployment caused the unemployment benefit extension...not the other way around. It's not like it's commonplace in this economy for employers to be unable to find workers because everyone prefers to live off unemployment. There are far more workers willing to supply their labor than there are employers willing to demand it, so until we correct that imbalance, concerns about reducing the supply of labor (e.g. people who prefer to collect unemployment instead of finding work) should not be a very high priority.

    If that is the case, it's an exception to the rule. With high unemployment this is overwhelmingly an employer's market.
    sadly you are incorrect - we have trained Americans to think that if they are working low-paying, difficult jobs they have somehow "lost", and unemployment benefits are often enough to make it not profitable.

    but this is easy enough to test. Simply mandate E-Verify all across the nation, the illegals will flee, and then stop unemployment benefits for anyone who is A) healthy and B) under the age of 30. They will then move into the jobs that the illegals just fled, and start being productive again. We'll get the taxes from their labor, too, so it will help the deficit on both ends.

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    sadly you are incorrect - we have trained Americans to think that if they are working low-paying, difficult jobs they have somehow "lost", and unemployment benefits are often enough to make it not profitable.
    The statistical evidence does not bear this theory out. Low-skilled jobs are the easiest of all to fill in the current economic climate. Generally the employers who still can't find qualified workers even in this economic climate are those at the TOP of the education pyramid (e.g. health care workers, engineers). The unemployment rate is 13.2% among those with less than a high school education, and only 4.4% among those with a bachelor's degree.

    but this is easy enough to test. Simply mandate E-Verify all across the nation, the illegals will flee, and then stop unemployment benefits for anyone who is A) healthy and B) under the age of 30.
    This is discriminatory and serves no purpose. What is the rationale for having someone with a law degree picking tomatoes because he couldn't afford to wait a few weeks to look for a job in his field? Who benefits from that? Furthermore, why should the government be involved in targeting specific workers (e.g. healthy 20-somethings) with draconian policies for the benefit of specific industries?

    They will then move into the jobs that the illegals just fled, and start being productive again. We'll get the taxes from their labor, too, so it will help the deficit on both ends.
    Many of those jobs will just disappear entirely, as it isn't cost-effective to pay someone $7 per hour for work that's only worth $2 per hour. Scapegoating illegal immigrants as the cause of high unemployment doesn't make any more sense than blaming extensive unemployment benefits. If we want to reduce unemployment, we need to increase the number of available jobs. The problem, generally speaking, isn't that people aren't looking hard enough. The jobs simply aren't there.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-03-11 at 04:04 PM.
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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Interesting...

    The GOP's backing away from some of their hardline positions is exactly what I was referring to when I started this thread. I wonder just how much pressure are they really feeling from their constituency?

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    It's amazing how many folks here cheer the massive generational theft taking place in DC.....absolutely amazing.
    well I don't know if the younger generation is going to be cheering it for too terribly long. it's not like the Boomers were all that great of parents, I really don't see us lining up to volunteer to work longer, harder, for less pay, and retire with less benefit just so they can ride the Easy Train out after having not saved for themselves.

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The statistical evidence does not bear this theory out. Low-skilled jobs are the easiest of all to fill in the current economic climate. Generally the employers who still can't find qualified workers even in this economic climate are those at the TOP of the education pyramid (e.g. health care workers, engineers). The unemployment rate is 13.2% among those with less than a high school education, and only 4.4% among those with a bachelor's degree.
    nothing that you have posted in any way corresponds to what I was arguing. with one notable exception - I have argued that those with less education are still unwilling to take hot, sweaty, difficult work unless they have no choice... and you have responded that their unemployment numbers are higher. To which I can only respond: "well, yeah."

    This is discriminatory
    it is most certainly not discrimination to expect our employers to follow the law.

    and serves no purpose.
    on the contrary. rule of law is a good in and of its' own right; and beyond that this frees up millions of jobs for those most desperately (as you point out) in need of them.

    who did you think our highschool-and-less educated crowd was competing against for employment, anywho?

    What is the rationale for having someone with a law degree picking tomatoes because he couldn't afford to wait a few weeks to look for a job in his field?
    most people who find a job already have one - ergo having a job does not keep you from looking. however, if you wish I am fine with creating a 3 month cut-off point. young lawyer (of which we have a glut), you have three months to find a job or hang up a shingle and be self-employed, and after that, you are on your own. you are college educated and then some, after all, and your unemployment rate is 4.4%, meaning you won't find it all that difficult at all to find employment.

    Who benefits from that?
    everyone else in society who has just lost a net drain and replaced him with a net producer.

    Furthermore, why should the government be involved in targeting specific workers (e.g. healthy 20-somethings) with draconian policies for the benefit of specific industries?
    no one said any specific industry was to be the specific benefactor - I merely use one in particular to point out that jobs are available, but because they are hot and sweaty and Americans were all raised to believe that A) we deserve a trophy for showing up and B) we should all be middle managers or overpaid art critics, they remain unfilled even in high unemployment. because we are subsidizing sloth.

    Many of those jobs will just disappear entirely, as it isn't cost-effective to pay someone $7 per hour for work that's only worth $2 per hour.
    actually most farming jobs of this type are paid by productivity. you pick X bushels of strawberries, you get Y dollars. though the cost of regulation for legal employees will indeed be far more prohibitive.

    Scapegoating illegal immigrants as the cause of high unemployment doesn't make any more sense than blaming extensive unemployment benefits.
    a large illegal populace is absolutely a cause of unemployment among our lower-educated populaces. they compete with them for jobs, and they have an advantage because on them the employer owes no taxes, must follow no bureaucratic labyrinth, and can hire and fire freely without fear of being sued by someone convinced they are Gods' Gift To Existence.

    If we want to reduce unemployment, we need to increase the number of legally available jobs
    fixed that for you, and of course I agree. currently we have many illegal jobs. let's turn those into legal jobs by not allowing employers to break the law, and pushing them to hire our poor.

    The problem, generally speaking, isn't that people aren't looking hard enough. The jobs simply aren't there.
    except, of course, that there they are.

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    Re: GOP gets ready to say 'yes'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Interesting...

    The GOP's backing away from some of their hardline positions is exactly what I was referring to when I started this thread. I wonder just how much pressure are they really feeling from their constituency?
    They are also getting pressure from within the party from traditional and more moderate republicans finally....hard right stances and hard left stances always lose

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