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Thread: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Of course I heartily encourage you to read the language for yourself, but as I mentioned above the sections were changed around during debate and they finalized it as the above. As I also said a number of pages back in this thread I am no lawyer and am not fully familiar with legalese but it seems to me that the "loophole" was closed. Regardless, I'd like to hear your thoughts once you complete your research.
    Yep, looking directly at the final law, both loopholes now seem to be closed. But that's assuming I found all the loopholes in the first place.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yep, looking directly at the final law, both loopholes now seem to be closed. But that's assuming I found all the loopholes in the first place.
    Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.

    As I said in the other thread. The president (whoever it might be) will interpret this however they please a the time. It should have been absolutely clear that NO citizen can be detained under any circumstance without being afforded due process.

    (The above quote is from Obama's signing statement.)

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Thus you have hit the nail on the head, law means virtually nothing if it can be executed and interpreted as desired.

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    As I said in the other thread. The president (whoever it might be) will interpret this however they please a the time.
    Of course they will. All Presidents interpret the law. They have to in order to implement it. That's not news. But it's a stretch to say they'll interpret it "however they please." They will likely interpret it in a way our society and legal system expects them to. If they don't, they'll face opposition from Congress, the courts, or the people.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.

    As I said in the other thread. The president (whoever it might be) will interpret this however they please a the time. It should have been absolutely clear that NO citizen can be detained under any circumstance without being afforded due process.

    (The above quote is from Obama's signing statement.)
    Yes it is. Here is the rest of that quote:

    Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.

    Section 1021 [Section 1031 in the passed Senate bill, which has already been quoted here, exact same text] affirms the executive branch's authority to detain persons covered by the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) (Public Law 107-40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note). This section breaks no new ground and is unnecessary. The authority it describes was included in the 2001 AUMF, as recognized by the Supreme Court and confirmed through lower court decisions since then. Two critical limitations in section 1021 confirm that it solely codifies established authorities. First, under section 1021(d), the bill does not "limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force." Second, under section 1021(e), the bill may not be construed to affect any "existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States." My Administration strongly supported the inclusion of these limitations in order to make clear beyond doubt that the legislation does nothing more than confirm authorities that the Federal courts have recognized as lawful under the 2001 AUMF. Moreover, I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

    Statement by the President on H.R. 1540 | The White House

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Moving forward, my Administration will interpret and implement the provisions described below in a manner that best preserves the flexibility on which our safety depends and upholds the values on which this country was founded.

    As I said in the other thread. The president (whoever it might be) will interpret this however they please a the time. It should have been absolutely clear that NO citizen can be detained under any circumstance without being afforded due process.

    (The above quote is from Obama's signing statement.)
    Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.
    Be it new or continued, it's a bad idea either way. A real bad idea.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Of course they will. All Presidents interpret the law. They have to in order to implement it. That's not news. But it's a stretch to say they'll interpret it "however they please." They will likely interpret it in a way our society and legal system expects them to. If they don't, they'll face opposition from Congress, the courts, or the people.
    I've seen little opposition to Obama ordering the death of an American citizen without due process. Sadly.

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Yes it is. Here is the rest of that quote:
    Obama has said many things that he didn't mean. We rather should look at his actions.

    U.S. Must Explain Targeted Killings of Its Own Citizens Blog of Rights: Official Blog of the American Civil Liberties Union

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    Re: Bill To Be Voted On Today Would Allow The Military To Sweep Up US Citizens At

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.
    Hence the problem. Were you trying to argue something else?

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