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Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

SheWolf said:
Harry, I'd like to you explain how the actual Tea Party had justification to destroy private property and capital and succeed in shutting down an entire city port, but the OWS people have no justification to block a sidewalk.
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Neither had justification.
Don't think I'll side with you by pointing out a part of history that helped initiate the founding of our nation.
 
megaprogman said:
Why would you want to use the term rape not in reference to any type of sexual assault or nonvoluntary sexual contact?

Thats just disgusting.
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Rape is just spontaneous sex. No big deal.
 
Jerry said:
Rape is just spontaneous sex. No big deal.
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DiAnna said:
SheWolf, I saw the civil rights movement live. I lived through it. Comparing what these OWS protesters are doing to the civil rights movement, where a dozen courageous people would go into a white's only diner and wait for the police to come in and club them bloody, is almost insulting. Seriously. If you believe in OWS's tactics, by all means support them. But it really is upsetting to have it compared to a movement in which people were routinely rounded up by law enforcement and lynched, where live rounds were fired into peaceful protesters and dogs sicced on them. I saw this. I lived in that time. It's not the same. It's not the same at all.
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This Occupy nonsense is just silly. It isn't about anything real, it's just organized rioting for the **** of it. Follow the money. Liberal use of tear gas should be employed to make it go away.
 
X Factor said:
LOL, Mr. I, it's obvious you've already decided it was brutality.
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Congrats! You once again show how you are horrible at reading comprehension.

I also said "Was this lady stupid for going to a protest where there was known police brutality? Hell yes."

I acknowledged that both parties were at fault and that was it.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Neither had justification.
Don't think I'll side with you by pointing out a part of history that helped initiate the founding of our nation.
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I would disagree. It has justification, that justification is bringing attention to the issue and hopefully the change they demand. If the civil rights movement or people involved with Boston Tea Party just wrote letters and didn't make any noise, sat quietly by and expected something to change suddenly, nothing would have happened. The Boston Tea Party set off a war, but you want to say that it had no justification. Every major political struggle in this country and in the history of the world has had the same all or nothing attitude, the willingness to go to jail, to be injured, to lose a lot and die even if it means winning a little; The Shirtwaist Factory labor rights protest, women's rights movement, current protests in Iran, Syria, and the Middle East, etc. Sometimes people say violence and war is necessary, but we are not even discussing violence... we are simply discussing blocking side walks and intersections at this point, and that is bringing attention to their political cause. It's the nature of political movements and massive protests, and is really is not big at all. It's not a big deal in comparison to every serious political movement. If this movement is going to have dramatic effect on our country, then I'd expect to see a lot more action and violence occur than just blocked off side walks and kids getting pepper sprayed in the face.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
If they're blocking innocent people from going about their daily lives and refuse to leave, I have no problem with the use of pepper spray, civil rights people or not.
It should be expected.
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Also the civil rights experienced a lot more than pepper spray, and it was expected but they kept protesting... Again, I am not trying to compare the OWS to the Civil Rights movement because they are not the same. The Civil Rights movement was a lot more violent and segregation and Wall St/greedy corps are entirely different issues, but I find your attitude to be fascinating, and I have to ask, where is line when it comes to protesters interfering with the daily lives of "innocent" people? At pepper spray? Police should have the right to just go pepper spray every protester interfering with the daily lives of other people in the modern society? And if pepper spray wasn't invented in the time of the Civil Rights movement, then what been acceptable to use instead?
 
SheWolf said:
Also the civil rights experienced a lot more than pepper spray, and it was expected but they kept protesting... Again, I am not trying to compare the OWS to the Civil Rights movement because they are not the same. The Civil Rights movement was a lot more violent and segregation and Wall St/greedy corps are entirely different issues, but I find your attitude to be fascinating, and I have to ask, where is line when it comes to protesters interfering with the daily lives of "innocent" people? At pepper spray? Police should have the right to just go pepper spray every protester interfering with the daily lives of other people in the modern society? And if pepper spray wasn't invented in the time of the Civil Rights movement, then what been acceptable to use instead?
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I have a strong distaste for those who don't respect the most basic tenets of what a society is built upon, a small amount of mutual respect.
You don't get in my way and I in turn will not get in yours.

When someone violates this, they have earned the scorn of others and if they refuse to relent, then the state has the duty and authority to remove them.

Basically, you can protest all you want, as long as you don't get in my way.
You can't abide by this, then you deserve what you get.

To add: Why should a protester have the ability to block the flow of others, not participating?
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
I have a strong distaste for those who don't respect the most basic tenets of what a society is built upon, a small amount of mutual respect.
You don't get in my way and I in turn will not get in yours.

When someone violates this, they have earned the scorn of others and if they refuse to relent, then the state has the duty and authority to remove them.

Basically, you can protest all you want, as long as you don't get in my way.
You can't abide by this, then you deserve what you get.

To add: Why should a protester have the ability to block the flow of others, not participating?
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Protesting the government may interfere with your life, but so does government policy... protesting is often the reaction of government inference in our lives. On the other hand, you can have non protesting people interfering with your life and crowding your streets and obstructing your walkways too, but we don't simply go around clubbing them or pepper spraying them in face.
 
SheWolf said:
Protesting the government may interfere with your life, but so does government policy... protesting is often the reaction of government inference in our lives. On the other hand, you can have non protesting people interfering with your life and crowding your streets and obstructing your walkways too, but we don't simply go around clubbing them or pepper spraying them in face.
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That doesn't explain how it's right to prevent people from going about their lives because you deem your protest to be more important.
 
SheWolf said:
Protesting the government may interfere with your life, but so does government policy... protesting is often the reaction of government inference in our lives. On the other hand, you can have non protesting people interfering with your life and crowding your streets and obstructing your walkways too, but we don't simply go around clubbing them or pepper spraying them in face.
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Actually, we have had plenty of incidents where people who were blocking the flow of traffic and/or obstructing others have gotten pepper sprayed without being protesters. One very recent incident that comes to mind is the group of guys at the football game who refused to move out of the way when they were doing their little dance thing. I'm pretty sure there are lots of other incidents similar to this where people have been pepper sprayed by police just for refusing to move/disperse when ordered to do so by police without those people being involved in protesting.
 
justabubba said:
from my weekly experience operating a soup kitchen feeding approximately 250 per meal i must voice concern about some of what you have expressed

what causes you to believe this woman is in need of a psych evaluation?

what causes you to believe there is something wrong with her? being a teen cannot be it as that is a natural state. otherwise one must conclude that all teens are in need of psych evals and have something wrong with them. ditto for those who are pregnant
thus, i can only conclude that you find her state of homelessness that which is aberrant

many of the 250 who come for a free meal are homeless. a portion have psych issues and some have chemical dependencies. but many simply have lost their means of support. they tend to be nominally educated and are/were the last hired and first fired. many had homes which were sold in foreclosure once their incomes/jobs were lost. they are the ones on the margins

others are young adults who are no longer welcome in the homes in which they were brought up. they are often quite vulnerable

you may sense my alarm by now, that many automatically conclude that those who are homeless are something other than victims of the economy only because they are homeless

to a lesser degree i am also concerned that you seem to fear the homeless as being a danger to others, based only on their sharing a homeless demographic

and while your heart is in the right place, many of the homeless remain in that situation by choice. those are the ones most frequently in need of some psych help. and yes, i agree with you, we are NOT doing enough to help them

many are not getting assistance because the social system is often not prepared to help them and many who qualify for public assistance do not receive it because they are without the life skills to understand and follow the bureaucratic processes required to realize the various forms of assistance that are available

what i have found over the past three years is that this is not a monolithic group, having the same characteristics. they are individuals. usually citizens. often veterans. we should assess them and help them as individuals
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Ok - so a psych evaluation in light of her situation would be a good way to start providing adequate care and help, wouldn't it? How can you help someone if you aren't willing to rule out - or determine - if they have deeper issues that need to be addressed.

Evaluate . . . if no issues: go from there.
If issues are found: go from there.

Such a simple and routine thing for people in her exactly situation I really don't see why you'd balk at the idea. If she didn't have issues before she definitely seems to have issues now.

Regardless of how you feel about my posts - I still feel bad for her and hope that her life improves with proper care and adequate support.
 
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X Factor said:
I hear you, but my point is that the cause itself shouldn't matter to someone who defends the form of protest that OWS is engaged in.
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I would oppose anyone who was preventing others from receiving medical treatment by blocking the entrance to the facility where they receive medical treatment. Doesn't matter to me what the medical procedure is, the fact that it is a medical procedure at all changes the dynamic.

However, I would support protesters who oppose global warming initiatives blocking the entrance to a Prius dealership.
 
So...after it is all said and done...and considering the womans history and inconsistencies in her story and how rapidly the story died and faded from sight...the ONLY relevant thing to be taken from the OP is this one line...

"This is unbelievable!!!"

Yes. Yes it is.
 
Tucker Case said:
I would oppose anyone who was preventing others from receiving medical treatment by blocking the entrance to the facility where they receive medical treatment. Doesn't matter to me what the medical procedure is, the fact that it is a medical procedure at all changes the dynamic.
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Ok, fair enough, but once you start making distinctions about whether the underlying cause is legitimate enough for you or not, then it ceases to be about the form of protest, and more about the content of the message. It's much easier to justify the actions of people you agree with.

However, I would support protesters who oppose global warming initiatives blocking the entrance to a Prius dealership.
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And I would think this would be a stupid thing to do. Owning a Prius is punishment enough.
 
X Factor said:
Ok, fair enough, but once you start making distinctions about whether the underlying cause is legitimate enough for you or not, then it ceases to be about the form of protest, and more about the content of the message. It's much easier to justify the actions of people you agree with.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I was just pointing out that there was a legitimate difference between teh situations in your analogy that could cause one to oppose one group's actions while supporting the other group's actions that would not be based on the particular cause involved.

I agree with your message, though, despite the slight issue I had with the analogy.

And I would think this would be a stupid thing to do. Owning a Prius is punishment enough.
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:lol: Well played.
 
pbrauer said:
This is unbelievable!!!

Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed | Video Cafe


A woman who was pepper sprayed during during a raid on Occupy Seattle last week is blaming police after she miscarried Sunday.

Jennifer Fox, 19, told The Stranger that she had been with the Occupy protests since they started in Westlake Park. She said she was homeless and three months pregnant, but felt the need to join activists during their march last Tuesday.

"I was standing in the middle of the crowd when the police started moving in," Fox recalled. "I was screaming, 'I am pregnant, I am pregnant. Let me through. I am trying to get out.'"

She claimed that police hit her in the stomach twice before pepper spraying her. One officer struck her with his foot and another pushed his bicycle into her. It wasn't clear if either of those incidents were intentional."Right before I turned, both cops lifted their pepper spray and sprayed me. My eyes puffed up and my eyes swelled shut," Fox said.

Seattle Post-Intelligencer photographer Joshua Trujillo snapped a picture of Fox in apparent agony as another activist carried her to an ambulance.Seattle fire department spokesman Kyle Moore told The Washington Post that a 19-year-old pregnant woman was among those that were examined by paramedics.

[clip]​
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One thing I learned from the other occu-tards stories is that the occutards were not being peaceful, resisting arrest or aiding others in resisting arrest.So I have to assume this woman was not just standing there peacefully protesting and leaving when the police officers told her to leave.
 
Tucker Case said:
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I was just pointing out that there was a legitimate difference between teh situations in your analogy that could cause one to oppose one group's actions while supporting the other group's actions that would not be based on the particular cause involved.

I agree with your message, though, despite the slight issue I had with the analogy.
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I probably could have thought of a better analogy. I used that one really just because the abortion issue had come up in this thread.



:lol: Well played.
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Thanks. :)
 
X Factor said:
I probably could have thought of a better analogy. I used that one really just because the abortion issue had come up in this thread.
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Once the difference between scenarios is allowed for, the analogy works for it's purpose of pointing out that someone should be consistent about how they view tactics rather than changing their views based on their agreement/disagreement with the message.
 
apdst said:
Why was she even there? I would think the safety of her baby would take priority over her politics. She had to know that the chance of a dust up was purdy good.

Sounds like she has the parental skills of a ****ing house cat.

This is prime example of how the occu-tards want to be relieved all their pesonal responsibility.
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So when I go to a protest, I should expect to have the **** beaten out of me?

If that's the case somebody isn't doing their job right.
 
X Factor said:
And neither do you, but somehow you know anything she says must just be the gospel truth? Certainly no motive for lying here. LOL

It's funny, the lady was supposedly 3 months pregnant and homeless but the miscarriage is caused by the pepper spray?
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Are we next going to be hearing of someone suing the Tobasco Sauce company over a miscarriage?

Every Item put into OC Spray can be eaten.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
So when I go to a protest, I should expect to have the **** beaten out of me?

If that's the case somebody isn't doing their job right.
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Someone needs to make a video like this for protesters. Many things in this video can apply to the protesters.

 
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jamesrage said:
Someone needs to make a video like this for protesters

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Nice strawman. There is a great deal of difference between going to a protest and acting belligerently to a police officer. Now, I didn't read through the whole thread, and I don't know if she did anything else to aggravate police or if the story is bull**** or not. I was responding to adspt's post saying that going to the protest constitutes negligence, and people should fear for their safety when they exercise their 1st Amendment rights.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
Nice strawman. There is a great deal of difference between going to a protest and acting belligerently to a police officer. Now, I didn't read through the whole thread, and I don't know if she did anything else to aggravate police or if the story is bull**** or not. I was responding to adspt's post saying that going to the protest constitutes negligence, and people should fear for their safety when they exercise their 1st Amendment rights.
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The fact is you do not know if this woman actually did something to warrent the police using force.But considering all the other numorous activities by occutard protesters one has to assume that she was not peaceful and that she was resisting arrest or aiding in resisting the arrest of others.
 
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