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Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

Goshin said:
IF this story is true (and at this point it is just hearsay), has it occurred to anybody that
1. Lots of women at 3 mos pregnant do not look obviously pregnant
2. Yelling in the middle of a riot, quite likely nobody will hear and understand you in the midst of the chaos

Ergo, it seems very improbable that even IF this actually happened, that the police had any idea she was pregnant in the midst of the melee...
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Do you emphasize "IF" so much when reports of OWS members committing crimes hit the news? Because if I remember correctly, you tend to accept that stuff pretty easily. It's funny what you are and aren't willing to accept readily.
 
mattillac said:
People think she should have remained homeless with her unborn child and stayed away from OWS for safety?

IMO society doesn't want to see or hear from her or her unborn child and some seem to think she probably should have stuck to living in alleys and or eating out of garbage cans to properly protect and nurturer that child! We all know some folks hate having to look at the homeless, its a real turnoff ,they should stay out of sight for their own good before the rich get really mad. Too bad she came out of that dark alley and tried to rise up.

As sad as it seems she would probably have been safer living in the shadows where she wouldn't be much of a burden to anyone.

Note to the homeless pregnant women, stay near your trash receptacles(homes)and keep quiet.
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Really?
She can't go to a homeless shelter or take advantage of social services?
Her only choice was to go to an OWS rally?

What world does your hyperbolic rant live in?
 
justabubba said:
'Like" was inadequate to express what a great post that is
THANKS for a very legitimate perspective. one that needed to be said
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Thank you Bubba for the kind words, this whole thing really makes me sad to say the least.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Really?
She can't go to a homeless shelter or take advantage of social services?
Her only choice was to go to an OWS rally?

What world does your hyperbolic rant live in?
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I could be wrong, but from everything I am aware of you don't just "walk in" to a homeless shelter. They have ​long lines. I am guessing you could probably get access to food and shelter just as easily at that protest, which is probably why the homeless were so attracted to it.
 
whysoserious said:
I could be wrong, but from everything I am aware of you don't just "walk in" to a homeless shelter. They have ​long lines. I am guessing you could probably get access to food and shelter just as easily at that protest, which is probably why the homeless were so attracted to it.
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There are specific social services, just for pregnant women and there are specific homeless shelters, just for women and children.

To say she had to live in a trash can is hyperbolic, emotionalism that is only true in a fictional universe.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
There are specific social services, just for pregnant women and there are specific homeless shelters, just for women and children.

To say she had to live in a trash can is hyperbolic, emotionalism that is only true in a fictional universe.
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So you are quite sure that on any given night, any homeless person, especially if pregnant, can get shelter and food?

Bleh, it's all so circumstantial that it is hard to argue over. I'll just leave it at:

Anyone who wants to condemn the cops is a hack. Anyone who wants to condemn this lady is a hack. None of you know the full story, and no matter what a miscarrage is a sad event. And you "conservatives" who pretend to care about every fetus and think "every life is special", you can shove it because you have shown your true feelings about life in this thread (and this is not directed at you Harry - it's just a rant).
 
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whysoserious said:
So you are quite sure that on any given night, any homeless person, especially if pregnant, can get shelter and food?
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Hint: Show up early, to avoid being left out, if there is a line to these specific shelters, it's not like you have anything else to do.
But of course being "homeless" doesn't necessarily mean she is without shelter.

She could be couch surfing with a friend or friends.
The story doesn't fill us in on that part, it just paints a sad picture, for the sake of emotionalism.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Really?
She can't go to a homeless shelter or take advantage of social services?
Her only choice was to go to an OWS rally?

What world does your hyperbolic rant live in?
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Maybe those shelters are all full up(winter is coming)?

Could be the social service programs have a waiting list(cut backs)?

Maybe she was removed from public aid recently(too many abusing it)?

She probably didn't have to go to the protest but then again maybe she felt welcomed there.

With uncertainty seeming to be the norm, really I am not sure what kind of world this is(to be honest).
 
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Tell ya why I am dubious...pregnant women at 3 mos are not delicate little flowers. At three months many women dont even know they are pregnant, let alone are they curtailing their physical activities. The body is a pretty miraculous machine. So, unless their was a direct kick to the stomach, Im not altogether convinced that this woman miscarried due to a kick to the stomach by the police officer. No indication or even report that she was on the ground, knocked to the ground, etc. Also...Im not altogether convinced by the video of her crying. That doesnt look like the lung capacity and vocal abilities of most people I know of (or personal experience from the military) that have been recently doused by pepper spray.

now...am I saying she is a liar? nope. I'm saying I want this thing to be investigated fully. Shouldnt be too tough. If she got kicked in the stomach Id like to know how and by who. kind of tough to do when you are in a crowd, yelling to be let out because you are pregnant, turning and just as you are turning get pepper sprayed...except just before you got pepper sprayed you got kicked...hard enough to cause a miscarriage.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Hint: Show up early, to avoid being left out, if there is a line to these specific shelters, it's not like you have anything else to do.
But of course being "homeless" doesn't necessarily mean she is without shelter.

She could be couch surfing with a friend or friends.
The story doesn't fill us in on that part, it just paints a sad picture, for the sake of emotionalism.
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That's true, you are right. Unfortunately it just a "shocking" headline without much fact or detail behind it. I do, however, think there will be some lawsuits stemming from the nationwide use of pepper spray on crowds, but we'll see.
 
VanceMack said:
Tell ya why I am dubious...pregnant women at 3 mos are not delicate little flowers. At three months many women dont even know they are pregnant, let alone are they curtailing their physical activities. The body is a pretty miraculous machine. So, unless their was a direct kick to the stomach, Im not altogether convinced that this woman miscarried due to a kick to the stomach by the police officer. No indication or even report that she was on the ground, knocked to the ground, etc. Also...Im not altogether convinced by the video of her crying. That doesnt look like the lung capacity and vocal abilities of most people I know of (or personal experience from the military) that have been recently doused by pepper spray.

now...am I saying she is a liar? nope. I'm saying I want this thing to be investigated fully. Shouldnt be too tough. If she got kicked in the stomach Id like to know how and by who. kind of tough to do when you are in a crowd, yelling to be let out because you are pregnant, turning and just as you are turning get pepper sprayed...except just before you got pepper sprayed you got kicked...hard enough to cause a miscarriage.
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What women? You mean the 400lb ones that have had 20 kids on MTV? I don't think so, VM.
 
mattillac said:
Maybe those shelters are all full up(winter is coming)?
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Notice the word "maybe."
You have no other information to go on, but assume that she is living on the streets.
Poor reasoning.

mattillac said:
Could be the social service programs have a waiting list(cut backs)?
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Nope.
Pregnant women, automatically qualify for Pregnancy Medicaid and other services like WIC.

mattillac said:
Maybe she was removed from public aid recently(too many abusing it)?
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Unless she was abusing it or found substantiated employment, that is incredibly unlikely.


mattillac said:
She probably didn't have to go to the protest but then again maybe she felt welcomed there.

With uncertainty seeming to be the norm, really I am not sure what kind of world this is(to be honest).
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I'm sure a strip club would make me feel welcome, of course that isn't the best use of my time, because I have a wife and kids to attend to.
Feeling welcome some where doesn't mean someone should go there.
Priorities are important.
 
whysoserious said:
That's true, you are right. Unfortunately it just a "shocking" headline without much fact or detail behind it. I do, however, think there will be some lawsuits stemming from the nationwide use of pepper spray on crowds, but we'll see.
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When the cops say disperse, especially when you're doing something wrong, you disperse.
If you do not, the assumption of risk is on you.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
When the cops say disperse, especially when you're doing something wrong, you disperse.
If you do not, the assumption of risk is on you.
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Guess Rosa Parks and every civil disobedient individual in the 50s and 60s should have been pepper sprayed as well. There is no need to pepper spray non-violent, civil disobedience, and I think the lawsuits that may follow from this will show that.

*Edit to add:

And by the way, I am pretty sure that your entire statement is not necessarily true anyway. Cops are subject to the same law as everyone else. There word is not the law, and ignorance to their word does not authorize excessive force.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
There are specific social services, just for pregnant women and there are specific homeless shelters, just for women and children.

To say she had to live in a trash can is hyperbolic, emotionalism that is only true in a fictional universe.
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Like this whole thread, and probably this whole story.
 
whysoserious said:
What women? You mean the 400lb ones that have had 20 kids on MTV? I don't think so, VM.
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Soldiers. Athletes. Women with irregular menstrual cycles. However the point remains the same and I think you are missing it (probably on purpose). There is nothing at all inappropriate in a woman 3 months pregnant attending a protest. It is as unlikely that she would encounter an incident causing a miscarriage as she would attending a sporting event or Christmas shopping at a mall.
 
whysoserious said:
What women? You mean the 400lb ones that have had 20 kids on MTV? I don't think so, VM.
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With my first pregnancy, I was walking to work (across Pearl Harbor Shipyard) for well over half the pregnancy, including especially the first few months. The only reason that I was moved to the office and off the ships during my pregnancy was because I was put on a high risk pregnancy. I was out dancing, just like my mother while pregnant with me, until the week before my child was born. In fact, he was born early, on New Year's Eve, but I had every intention of going out dancing at the bar we would normally go to for New Year's Eve. In fact, at 5 months along, I was hit by a slow moving truck. I was showing at that time. Scared the hell out of me, but I ended up being fine. And I am/was within military standards when it comes to weight. In fact, many of the girls that were in the office were working out all throughout their pregnancy.
 
VanceMack said:
Soldiers. Athletes. Women with irregular menstrual cycles. However the point remains the same and I think you are missing it (probably on purpose). There is nothing at all inappropriate in a woman 3 months pregnant attending a protest. It is as unlikely that she would encounter an incident causing a miscarriage as she would attending a sporting event or Christmas shopping at a mall.
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That is simply not true. I've posted on the confrontation threads just as often as you have. These protests can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When you have hundreds or thousands of people gathered in the street and they start moving? You're swept along, like it or not. You run the risk of being knocked down...being manhandled as someone else loses their balance...and, if people in the front start anything at all physical (including not obeying orders to move off), you run the risk of a stampede comin' back atcha.
 
MaggieD said:
That is simply not true. I've posted on the confrontation threads just as often as you have. These protests can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When you have hundreds or thousands of people gathered in the street and they start moving? You're swept along, like it or not. You run the risk of being knocked down...being manhandled as someone else loses their balance...and, if people in the front start anything at all physical (including not obeying orders to move off), you run the risk of a stampede comin' back atcha.
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I think a reasonable person would have a reasonable expectation to not be involved in an incident that would cause a miscarriage, even at a protest. Its a stretch to say she is guilty of negligence. I still believe the details of this whole thing are very sketchy. Im not at all convinced that she was waffle stomped by a cop during the protest. Id like to see a full investigation, and let the chips fall where they may.
 
VanceMack said:
I think a reasonable person would have a reasonable expectation to not be involved in an incident that would cause a miscarriage, even at a protest. Its a stretch to say she is guilty of negligence. I still believe the details of this whole thing are very sketchy. Im not at all convinced that she was waffle stomped by a cop during the protest. Id like to see a full investigation, and let the chips fall where they may.
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That's way too much to ask. We should jump to conclusions based on whether we think the protestors are good people or evil incarnate.
 
MaggieD said:
That is simply not true. I've posted on the confrontation threads just as often as you have. These protests can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When you have hundreds or thousands of people gathered in the street and they start moving? You're swept along, like it or not. You run the risk of being knocked down...being manhandled as someone else loses their balance...and, if people in the front start anything at all physical (including not obeying orders to move off), you run the risk of a stampede comin' back atcha.
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What Occupy protests are you f'n going to where you are "swept" all along, are hurt or, better yet, have miscarriages? My family and I been to a few Occupy marches in NY/Boston and NONE have "swept" any of us to the point where we can't simply walk towards a side of the street and move away from them. Our kid isn't even in the stroller half the time and she has absolutely no problem walking right next to us. It's not the running of the bulls in Pamplona ffs. Gain some mother****ing perspective and actually attend one instead of talking as if you're some sort of authority on marches you watch on television.
 
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Hatuey said:
What Occupy protests are you f'n going to where you are "swept" all along, are hurt or, better yet, have miscarriages? My family and I been to a few Occupy marches in NY/Boston and NONE have "swept" any of us to the point where we can't simply walk towards a side of the street and move away from them. Our kid isn't even in the stroller half the time and she has absolutely no problem walking right next to us. It's not the running of the bulls in Pamplona ffs. Gain some mother****ing perspective and actually attend one instead of talking as if you're some sort of authority on marches you watch on television.
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One of our posters posted a while ago that he was going to take his two daughters to OWS....three and 18-months, if I remember correctly. Being the calm, rational person I am, I was adamant that he was an idiot. He was (unlike some posters) politely adamant in the other direction. "What could go wrong." Well, I heard from that poster. He was honest enough to tell me afterwards that he decided not to bring his kids....and if he had'of, he would have had to turn around and go home.

My best friend took her three-year-old to Navy Pier on the 4th of July. Thousands and thousands of people. The rush of the crowd was so overwhelming, that they became very concerned that they were in the midst of a mob mentality (albeit a very peaceful one). He put his daughter on his shoulders, and they left.

I was at a convention in San Diego. Jay Leno was entertaining at the keynote event. The sound system failed. 3,000 people were asked to walk down a wide staircase to the floor below to enter a new room. Someone fell at the bottom of the stairs causing an immediate and serious pile-up. Several people were taken to the hospital.

I was at Disneyland in Los Angeles. There's a huge 3-story escalator. A little girl, going down the escalator, got her shoelace caught at the bottom of the escalator. Her parents panicked....couldn't find the emergency-off. Fortunately, another visitor jumped over her and pressed the button to stop the staircase.

I'm not an authority on marches, I'm a commonsense lady who understands the dangers of mere crowds. Add the incendiary nature of a protest to the crowd, and one has a recipe for disaster.

The fact that you take your young child to a protest tells me everything I need to know about Hatuey.
The fact that you can't post to me without expletives deleted tells me everything I need to know about Hatuey. ('Course it's Hatuey 201 for me....)

I suggest you gain some perspective on how to post on a public forum and make yourself heard....instead of sounding like a raving lunatic.
 
Hatuey said:
What Occupy protests are you f'n going to where you are "swept" all along, are hurt or, better yet, have miscarriages? My family and I been to a few Occupy marches in NY/Boston and NONE have "swept" any of us to the point where we can't simply walk towards a side of the street and move away from them. Our kid isn't even in the stroller half the time and she has absolutely no problem walking right next to us. It's not the running of the bulls in Pamplona ffs. Gain some mother****ing perspective and actually attend one instead of talking as if you're some sort of authority on marches you watch on television.
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So if it didn't happen in NY/Boston it couldn't possibly happen anywhere else? WOW! :lamo
 
MaggieD said:
One of our posters posted a while ago that he was going to take his two daughters to OWS....three and 18-months, if I remember correctly. Being the calm, rational person I am, I was adamant that he was an idiot. He was (unlike some posters) politely adamant in the other direction. "What could go wrong." Well, I heard from that poster. He was honest enough to tell me afterwards that he decided not to bring his kids....and if he had'of, he would have had to turn around and go home.

My best friend took her three-year-old to Navy Pier on the 4th of July. Thousands and thousands of people. The rush of the crowd was so overwhelming, that they became very concerned that they were in the midst of a mob mentality (albeit a very peaceful one). He put his daughter on his shoulders, and they left.

I was at a convention in San Diego. Jay Leno was entertaining at the keynote event. The sound system failed. 3,000 people were asked to walk down a wide staircase to the floor below to enter a new room. Someone fell at the bottom of the stairs causing an immediate and serious pile-up. Several people were taken to the hospital.

I was at Disneyland in Los Angeles. There's a huge 3-story escalator. A little girl, going down the escalator, got her shoelace caught at the bottom of the escalator. Her parents panicked....couldn't find the emergency-off. Fortunately, another visitor jumped over her and pressed the button to stop the staircase.

I'm not an authority on marches, I'm a commonsense lady who understands the dangers of mere crowds. Add the incendiary nature of a protest to the crowd, and one has a recipe for disaster.

The fact that you take your young child to a protest tells me everything I need to know about Hatuey.
The fact that you can't post to me without expletives deleted tells me everything I need to know about Hatuey. ('Course it's Hatuey 201 for me....)

I suggest you gain some perspective on how to post on a public forum and make yourself heard....instead of sounding like a raving lunatic.
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Mag's...what if a pregnant woman was caught up in that Jay Leno traffic pileup? Or maybe got shoved really hard at a sporting event? Should pregnant women avoid shopping at sales during Christmas season?

And shouldnt we also maybe determine if this thing actually happened in the first place?
 
VanceMack said:
Mag's...what if a pregnant woman was caught up in that Jay Leno traffic pileup? Or maybe got shoved really hard at a sporting event? Should pregnant women avoid shopping at sales during Christmas season?

And shouldnt we also maybe determine if this thing actually happened in the first place?
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Oh, I totally agree with you. We know nothing. Vance, I view some behaviors as more risky than others. Should a woman be able to walk home alone safely from a single's bar half-loaded at 4 AM? Of course. Is that risky, You bet. Bad choice? You bet. I'm saying this lady made a poor choice, that's all. If a friend of mine did that who was 3 months pregnant, I'd think she'd lost her marbles. I think this lady was an idiot. But do I personally believe a copper kicked her in the stomach a few times? Absolutely not. Do I believe she was intentionally run into by a bicycle/motorcycle? Absolutely not. The only thing I'm most sure of is that she probably got sprayed with pepper spray. Was that a predictable outcome? Probably not. But one could say that anyone participating in these protests puts their lily white on the line in that regard....even if the pepper spray comes from blow-by. Risky behavior.
 
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