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Thread: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Protesting the government may interfere with your life, but so does government policy... protesting is often the reaction of government inference in our lives. On the other hand, you can have non protesting people interfering with your life and crowding your streets and obstructing your walkways too, but we don't simply go around clubbing them or pepper spraying them in face.
    Actually, we have had plenty of incidents where people who were blocking the flow of traffic and/or obstructing others have gotten pepper sprayed without being protesters. One very recent incident that comes to mind is the group of guys at the football game who refused to move out of the way when they were doing their little dance thing. I'm pretty sure there are lots of other incidents similar to this where people have been pepper sprayed by police just for refusing to move/disperse when ordered to do so by police without those people being involved in protesting.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    from my weekly experience operating a soup kitchen feeding approximately 250 per meal i must voice concern about some of what you have expressed

    what causes you to believe this woman is in need of a psych evaluation?

    what causes you to believe there is something wrong with her? being a teen cannot be it as that is a natural state. otherwise one must conclude that all teens are in need of psych evals and have something wrong with them. ditto for those who are pregnant
    thus, i can only conclude that you find her state of homelessness that which is aberrant

    many of the 250 who come for a free meal are homeless. a portion have psych issues and some have chemical dependencies. but many simply have lost their means of support. they tend to be nominally educated and are/were the last hired and first fired. many had homes which were sold in foreclosure once their incomes/jobs were lost. they are the ones on the margins

    others are young adults who are no longer welcome in the homes in which they were brought up. they are often quite vulnerable

    you may sense my alarm by now, that many automatically conclude that those who are homeless are something other than victims of the economy only because they are homeless

    to a lesser degree i am also concerned that you seem to fear the homeless as being a danger to others, based only on their sharing a homeless demographic

    and while your heart is in the right place, many of the homeless remain in that situation by choice. those are the ones most frequently in need of some psych help. and yes, i agree with you, we are NOT doing enough to help them

    many are not getting assistance because the social system is often not prepared to help them and many who qualify for public assistance do not receive it because they are without the life skills to understand and follow the bureaucratic processes required to realize the various forms of assistance that are available

    what i have found over the past three years is that this is not a monolithic group, having the same characteristics. they are individuals. usually citizens. often veterans. we should assess them and help them as individuals
    Ok - so a psych evaluation in light of her situation would be a good way to start providing adequate care and help, wouldn't it? How can you help someone if you aren't willing to rule out - or determine - if they have deeper issues that need to be addressed.

    Evaluate . . . if no issues: go from there.
    If issues are found: go from there.

    Such a simple and routine thing for people in her exactly situation I really don't see why you'd balk at the idea. If she didn't have issues before she definitely seems to have issues now.

    Regardless of how you feel about my posts - I still feel bad for her and hope that her life improves with proper care and adequate support.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 11-25-11 at 01:08 AM.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    vinegar can, salt can, hmm... potatoes, pumpkins apparently make wonderful artillery....
    True. They have weaponization characteristics. My old potato gun/bazooka was considered enough of a weapon to get me arrested when I was a kid.

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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I hear you, but my point is that the cause itself shouldn't matter to someone who defends the form of protest that OWS is engaged in.
    I would oppose anyone who was preventing others from receiving medical treatment by blocking the entrance to the facility where they receive medical treatment. Doesn't matter to me what the medical procedure is, the fact that it is a medical procedure at all changes the dynamic.

    However, I would support protesters who oppose global warming initiatives blocking the entrance to a Prius dealership.

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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    So...after it is all said and done...and considering the womans history and inconsistencies in her story and how rapidly the story died and faded from sight...the ONLY relevant thing to be taken from the OP is this one line...

    "This is unbelievable!!!"

    Yes. Yes it is.

  6. #216
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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I would oppose anyone who was preventing others from receiving medical treatment by blocking the entrance to the facility where they receive medical treatment. Doesn't matter to me what the medical procedure is, the fact that it is a medical procedure at all changes the dynamic.
    Ok, fair enough, but once you start making distinctions about whether the underlying cause is legitimate enough for you or not, then it ceases to be about the form of protest, and more about the content of the message. It's much easier to justify the actions of people you agree with.

    However, I would support protesters who oppose global warming initiatives blocking the entrance to a Prius dealership.
    And I would think this would be a stupid thing to do. Owning a Prius is punishment enough.

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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Ok, fair enough, but once you start making distinctions about whether the underlying cause is legitimate enough for you or not, then it ceases to be about the form of protest, and more about the content of the message. It's much easier to justify the actions of people you agree with.
    I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I was just pointing out that there was a legitimate difference between teh situations in your analogy that could cause one to oppose one group's actions while supporting the other group's actions that would not be based on the particular cause involved.

    I agree with your message, though, despite the slight issue I had with the analogy.

    And I would think this would be a stupid thing to do. Owning a Prius is punishment enough.
    Well played.

  8. #218
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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    This is unbelievable!!!

    Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed | Video Cafe


    A woman who was pepper sprayed during during a raid on Occupy Seattle last week is blaming police after she miscarried Sunday.

    Jennifer Fox, 19, told The Stranger that she had been with the Occupy protests since they started in Westlake Park. She said she was homeless and three months pregnant, but felt the need to join activists during their march last Tuesday.

    "I was standing in the middle of the crowd when the police started moving in," Fox recalled. "I was screaming, 'I am pregnant, I am pregnant. Let me through. I am trying to get out.'"

    She claimed that police hit her in the stomach twice before pepper spraying her. One officer struck her with his foot and another pushed his bicycle into her. It wasn't clear if either of those incidents were intentional."Right before I turned, both cops lifted their pepper spray and sprayed me. My eyes puffed up and my eyes swelled shut," Fox said.

    Seattle Post-Intelligencer photographer Joshua Trujillo snapped a picture of Fox in apparent agony as another activist carried her to an ambulance.Seattle fire department spokesman Kyle Moore told The Washington Post that a 19-year-old pregnant woman was among those that were examined by paramedics.

    [clip]
    One thing I learned from the other occu-tards stories is that the occutards were not being peaceful, resisting arrest or aiding others in resisting arrest.So I have to assume this woman was not just standing there peacefully protesting and leaving when the police officers told her to leave.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  9. #219
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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I was just pointing out that there was a legitimate difference between teh situations in your analogy that could cause one to oppose one group's actions while supporting the other group's actions that would not be based on the particular cause involved.

    I agree with your message, though, despite the slight issue I had with the analogy.
    I probably could have thought of a better analogy. I used that one really just because the abortion issue had come up in this thread.



    Well played.
    Thanks.

  10. #220
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    Re: Pregnant #OccupySeattle Protester Miscarries After Being Kicked, Pepper Sprayed

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I probably could have thought of a better analogy. I used that one really just because the abortion issue had come up in this thread.
    Once the difference between scenarios is allowed for, the analogy works for it's purpose of pointing out that someone should be consistent about how they view tactics rather than changing their views based on their agreement/disagreement with the message.

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