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Thread: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

  1. #11
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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    I still don't get why how accepting the bailouts = criminal. Wall Street may be criminal for other reasons, but, if the bailout was criminal, it seems like the Democrat held Congress and Senate of that time would be the ones to blame. We don't call welfare recipients criminal because they take government handouts legally (yes, I'd like to change the laws, but the recipients aren't criminal).

    Fannie/Freddie got: $183 Billion - $32 Billion paid back. All government enterprise. Where are the criminals? What about Chrysler and GM - where are the demonstrations and picket lines for them?

    What about Student loan holders? Are they criminal if their loans are forgiven? Wait! The Wallstreet bailouts WERE loans. Does that make students criminals for having the federally backed loans to begin with?

    Not including Fannie/Freddie, $594 Billion was paid out and about $279 Billion has been returned. It's being returned with interest. These weren't thefts, they were loans. I don't think they should have been made, but you can't blame the one who asks for the loan, you blame the person who loaned out the money - especially when it was your money.
    Accepting the bailouts arent criminal...thats not the prosecutions they are talking about...or the arrests...its HOW THEY GO TO THE POINT OF needing the bailouts that was criminal...

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    Ok. Learning. Goldman Sachs = potential criminal. Fraud and coverup.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    [h=2]....that the government hasnít tried hard enough to bring Wall Street criminals to justice.
    The quote refers to Goldman Sachs? Or refers to Wall Street in general? And, the idea is that $1 billion loss to investors and $1 billion gain to Goldman Sachs caused the financial meltdown? I still don't think either statement holds water.

    Blame is thrown at all of Wall Street and not all who took bailouts. Blame is thown at Wall Street instead of Congress. Blame for entire economy thrown at 1 criminal corporation instead of Congress.

    Or, is the allegation that all of Wall Street was doing what Sachs was doing?

    1 more question: did Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac underwrite the loans that were packaged or not? If they did, why did the investors in the package deal take such a hit?
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    People need to start getting angry. Until enough people do that, absolutely nothing is going to change.

    Our government is no longer accountable to the people, and it doesn't matter who you vote for, it's not going to change the outcome.

    We need reform through people power.

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    Ok. Learning. Goldman Sachs = potential criminal. Fraud and coverup.

    The quote refers to Goldman Sachs? Or refers to Wall Street in general? And, the idea is that $1 billion loss to investors and $1 billion gain to Goldman Sachs caused the financial meltdown? I still don't think either statement holds water.
    Caused? Of course not. No one thing caused it. It was a part of it.

    Blame is thrown at all of Wall Street and not all who took bailouts. Blame is thown at Wall Street instead of Congress. Blame for entire economy thrown at 1 criminal corporation instead of Congress.

    Or, is the allegation that all of Wall Street was doing what Sachs was doing?

    1 more question: did Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac underwrite the loans that were packaged or not? If they did, why did the investors in the package deal take such a hit?
    The way I understand it they were selling these loans to F&F as quickly as they reasonably could. It's sort of like the guy trying to tunnel out of prison. You look for as many places as possible to hide the dirt.

    As far as nobody blaming Congress, that isn't true. Just because the Tea Party isn't front page at the moment doesn't mean they aren't still there. Watch, they will become very active again when the elections get closer.

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    If the government makes a law, and you abide by that law, how can it be illegal? This wasn't phony paperwork - that's not the allegation. The allegation is that the bankers should have known better. I claim that that the bankers didn't need to know anything - they filled out the paperwork the government asked for and the borrower got the loan. The borrower may have provided fraudulent info (criminal), and the government may been unwise in the program (for sure), but that doesn't mean "the bank" (as if that's even possible) was required to do more due diligence than the government asked for.

    By the way, I'd be happy to let them fail, too. But, demonizing the banks is mis-placed anger. The government is the source of the problem. Otherwise, the banks would've been lending their own money.



    So, not criminal on the part of the banks, just bad government. We agree.



    No different than the no income verification loan. If the government said it's ok, they can't come back later and say it wasn't ok. Bad government, not criminal bank.




    Separate topic.


    Perhaps Iím not directly on topic, but the angst is the same. The question I posed was: I don't get why bailout = criminal. Obviously, OWS thinks the banks were criminal. Or, are you saying OWS is just mad that "the banks" contributed to the bad economy? I think they're saying criminal, but I'm not adamant about it.



    We agree there. But, the fraud that was perpetrated was by the Federal Government not by the banks. The banks, for the most part, when it comes to the loans and packaging thereof, operated within the rules they were given. The securities should have been strong because they were supposed to be backed by the USA - also a fraud perpetrated by the Federal Government.


    "The bankers knew that many of the mortgages were bogus and yet allowed them to be packaged as investment instruments to get out from under long term liability. " This is the key sentence. The banks repackaged the paper they felt was not worth its stated value and sold it to their own customers with the implication that it was worth its stated value. Fraud, pure and simple. This overlaps to the fact that these people make money by moving paper, not labor. It's sort of like Enron and all its creative paperwork. Just because everybody is doing it doesn't make it legal, right, ethical, or moral.

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    given that most of it seems to have gone to government, they would be correct.

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    Americans believe more strongly than ever that most of the government bailout money for the financial industry went to those who caused the economic meltdown and that the government hasnít tried hard enough to bring Wall Street criminals to justice.

    73% that number has gone way up....finally the blame is falling where it belongs

    73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis - Rasmussen Reportsô
    The other 27% need a beating if they think differently lol. In all honesty, the recession we have been dealing with is more than just financial instituitions being fast and loose. That is as big of a cause of this as any of course, but remember who was spurring them to loan the way they did, and then who has been taking over control of them...

    As for the wall street crooks, while there has been some dirty moves going on for sure, ultimately what willstop all the madness is when people wise up and take their money out and let these guys know that it isn't going back in till they straighten their act. Same goes for the big banks. We the people still have the power to make these people work for us. We need to remember that.

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    Re: 73% Think Most Bailout Money Went To Those Who Caused Economic Crisis

    So true! Too bad so many people can't see what's so painfully obvious.

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