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Thread: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

  1. #71
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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    People who think that their civilian "sacrifice" compares to the dead, the crippled, the wounded, are hypocrites....
    Giving your life is the ultimate sacrifice obviously, but that you think not serving in the military makes someone somehow unworthy of voting is delusional. Military members are not the only people who make this country what is. There are millions of people who make this country what it is and to deny those people the right to participate in the government of a country that not only affects them, but that they have also contributed to, some more than others is nonsensical.

    If you think people who don't "serve" contribute so little to this country that don't have a right to have a voice in it's government, then get rid of them all and see how much country you have left to be grateful for.

    And I know you said earlier that military service isn't the only way to "serve", but your comments since then have given a much different picture.

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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Giving your life is the ultimate sacrifice obviously, but that you think not serving in the military makes someone somehow unworthy of voting is delusional. Military members are not the only people who make this country what is. There are millions of people who make this country what it is and to deny those people the right to participate in the government of a country that not only affects them, but that they have also contributed to, some more than others is nonsensical.

    If you think people who don't "serve" contribute so little to this country that don't have a right to have a voice in it's government, then get rid of them all and see how much country you have left to be grateful for.

    And I know you said earlier that military service isn't the only way to "serve", but your comments since then have given a much different picture.
    I have always maintained that even the handicapped can serve, and that there are ways other than the military. If you think I hve changed my views, prove it. Just because I agree with Heinlein doesn"t mean I think it will happen.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I was basing those figure off this CBO report
    Social Security Privatization: Experiences Abroad

    The relevant portion
    So why not go with alternatives that don't charge that much.
    It's not very difficult to find.

    We still pay a fee to administer the SS program, which is likely larger on aggregate that the cost of the funds cited.
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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Citations please.

    Social Security Privatization: Experiences Abroad

    Read it and weep
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    its a few people mismanaging the money of others that is the problem....
    Life is risky, you cannot MAKE it unrisky. Gov't handling SS, and what happens? It's going broke.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    My SS checks keep coming in, it hasn't defaulted yet......

    It's in the red now, without borrowing it WOULD stop coming in.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Life is risky, you cannot MAKE it unrisky. Gov't handling SS, and what happens? It's going broke.
    As an Actuary (or aspiring Actuary), and I offended by your statement.

    You can not remove risk, but you can hedge it.

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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I have always maintained that even the handicapped can serve, and that there are ways other than the military. If you think I hve changed my views, prove it. Just because I agree with Heinlein doesn"t mean I think it will happen.
    Okay:
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I often blast conservatives for stupid remarks, but yours is the first from a liberal. Public education isn't paid in full on just your parents property taxes. Freedom from oppression isn't paid in full just because your tax dollars paid for the soldiers and their weapons.
    I guess it is alright to let others do the dangerous stuff in your behalf as long as you have a job and pay taxes.
    Veterans Day is Friday.....buy a poppy, that'll do it...
    Aside from the BS and condescension, you also imply in the bold part that if someone hasn't "done the dangerous stuff" they haven't "paid in full" or served. Why does it matter if someone hasn't done the "dangerous stuff" aka serve in the military if they can serve in other ways?

    And again, your rationale for making people serve before voting doesn't make much sense. This country is not just built on people who "serve" whatever that really means.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 11-10-11 at 09:10 PM.

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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    from your link....

    Fifth, the regulation of pension funds is important. Countries with less regulation tend to offer a larger variety of portfolios to pensioners; meanwhile, their pension industry could be more prone to fraud with large losses for investors. Clearly, countries with less developed capital markets tend to choose a more restrictive environment for their pension funds than countries with more developed capital markets.

    REGULATION OF PENSION FUNDS

    The five countries discussed in this paper use basically two types of pension fund regulation. The United Kingdom and Australia have left investment choices largely unregulated, relying simply on the prudent-man rule. By contrast, Argentina, Chile, and Mexico have imposed fairly strict regulatory requirements on their pension industry. The strictness of the regulation seems to be related to the maturity of the respective countries' capital markets.

    Of the countries studied, the United Kingdom is the country with the least regulatory interference. Workers are free to choose their pension fund from a large variety of investment firms, banks, and other pension providers. The firms' managers must give their customers reliable advice and diversify investments, but no specific limits are placed on certain investment instruments. Because the U.K. system allows workers to opt out, it was originally prone to overzealous sales practices. Moreover, the lack of a uniform fee structure causes a potentially confusing variety of pension fund fees and commissions. U.K. investments are much more broadly diversified than those held by Latin American pension funds, however, leading to a broader supply of funds with differing risk and return properties.

    Australian regulators also interfere little in investment choices, only restricting investment of funds in the company of the sponsoring employer. Because most workers cannot choose their investment fund, however, Australia has not had a problem with high-pressure sales practices as has the United Kingdom. Moreover, with the growing importance of the superannuation sector, the government has increased its supervisory efforts to prevent unwise investment practices and fraud. Because investment funds cannot compete for individual workers, however, the funds' portfolios may not coincide with a worker's risk preferences. In fact, some consider the Australian investment practices too conservative.

    Chile and Argentina heavily regulate their pension funds. In both countries, funds face minimum return requirements, investment limits, and strict oversight by a supervisory authority. In addition, each fund may offer only a single portfolio. As a result, investment firms tend to have similar portfolios, basing competition more on services offered than on portfolio choices and investment performance. Moreover, firms may charge commissions and fees only on new contributions--not on assets. On the one hand, such a regulation improves the transparency of the fee structure and reduces costs for low-income workers with less steady employment and inactive accounts; on the other hand, it substantially reduces the net investment returns of new contributions and forces active contributors to subsidize the accounts of noncontributing account holders.

    Mexico also heavily restricts pension funds: they must meet stringent requirements and are controlled by a supervisory commission. According to the current plan, however, Mexico's system will eventually allow workers more choices than the Argentine or Chilean system. In Mexico, each pension fund will offer a variety of investment portfolios, allowing workers to allocate their accounts among several mutual funds. Moreover, the Mexican system permits a variety of commissions and fees, including a charge on assets. END OF QUOTED PART OF THE LINK>>>>

    I highlighted a few spots...
    The USA has a much larger economy, and more crooks per square mile than all the other countries combined.
    If we switch, I hope our govt puts SEVERE criminal penalties for fund managers who try to screw over the public...
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    Re: Seniors join Occupy Chicago rally to protest cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's in the red now, without borrowing it WOULD stop coming in.
    no, it is not....it is an insurance program, not a retirement program, and the govt will fund it come hell or high water. Of course, they can also modify it, and probably will, to make us less dependent on it.
    Oracle of Utah
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