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Thread: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    These proposals arent simply about fixing and maintaining roads. They are proposing projects like light rail that cost 85-110 million a MILE just to put in place, not including the cost of the rolling stock, and not including the cost of maintenance. See...this is the problem. They throw out a few populist ideas with some catch phrases and slogans and hey...why...thats good enough for folks...lets do it!
    The problem with the way American evaluate rail and public transportation is that they always expect it to make a profit without any government subsidy.

    But they never use that same standard for the roadways. They simply expect subsidy of the automobile industry.

    Before the collapse of public transportation systems in the 1950s (when the automobile industry got its biggest subsidy ever - called the Interstate Highway System - and it was MUCH larger than the bailouts), it was efficient and profitable. Many cities had private/public partnerships and both the private industries and municipalities made good money off of it.

    I guarantee you that there are at least 40 people in my neighborhood who work in downtown Nashville. What is more cost efficient and energy efficient? All 40 of them driving separately or all 40 of them taking a bus or a train car at the same time?

    Further, cities with good public transportation systems have much lower DUI rates than cities without, so it's also a public safety issue.

    Further, many studies say good public transportation is better for job accessibility and can help ease unemployment.

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    The problem with the way American evaluate rail and public transportation is that they always expect it to make a profit without any government subsidy.

    But they never use that same standard for the roadways. They simply expect subsidy of the automobile industry.

    Before the collapse of public transportation systems in the 1950s (when the automobile industry got its biggest subsidy ever - called the Interstate Highway System - and it was MUCH larger than the bailouts), it was efficient and profitable. Many cities had private/public partnerships and both the private industries and municipalities made good money off of it.

    I guarantee you that there are at least 40 people in my neighborhood who work in downtown Nashville. What is more cost efficient and energy efficient? All 40 of them driving separately or all 40 of them taking a bus or a train car at the same time?

    Further, cities with good public transportation systems have much lower DUI rates than cities without, so it's also a public safety issue.

    Further, many studies say good public transportation is better for job accessibility and can help ease unemployment.
    Did you read any of the small SAMPLING of debt and deficit spending that is CURRENTLY costing the taxpayers billions to operate mass transit systems? Do you get how much PER MILE it would cost? Can you honestly justify strapping your grandchildren with MORE debt and a future bill to sustain those systems? The notion is fiscal insanity. Maybe we should stop figuring we have the right to just completely **** over future generation at our whim.

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post


    We're not talking about building brand-new interstate highways here. Much of what we're talking about here is simply road and bridge maintenance that has been put off for years. We need to stop kicking the can down the road and fix these bridges, NOW.



    What are you talking about? Right now, Louisville, Kentucky has a major bridge on a major interstate highway that is CLOSED. Why? Because it has serious structural flaws, to the point where it is literally dangerous to drive over. You know how much that is costing greater Louisville every single day? A LOT. That hurts their economy. All these deficit hawks love to rail about spending, spending, spending, but what they don't stop and THINK about is that in some cases--notice I didn't say "all"!--but in some cases, when you don't spend, crap like this happens.

    Look, if you've got a SPECIFIC project that has even a rudimentary cost-benefit analysis to show that it's just not worth it, I am all ears. Just don't automatically slam it because it's light rail or some crap like that.



    Notice I was specifically referring to ROADS? Look, I know conservatives hold a strong contempt for passenger rail. I get that. That's why I intentionally brought up roads. Are you against fixing our roads, too?

    Lemme give you guys an example of one of the many, many situations that need to be rectified. There's a bridge on my drive home that is more than half a century old, is near a major intersection, and thus prevents any sort of road-widening that would help unclog this bottleneck. Every day around rush hour, you can see cars lined up for nearly half a mile waiting to go straight or turn left, all because the road is two lanes instead of the necessary four, something that cannot be fixed until the bridge is. Why is this a bad thing to fix?? Why are WE, the pro-infrastructure improvement people, the ones on the defensive here?? The ones on the defensive should be those that want to block this progress, that want to torpedo the whole process, simply because a process that has been going on for many decades "costs too much." Get over it already! If you don't like infrastructure, why don't you move to the Amazon?
    This OP and thread wasnt ABOUT roads. Sen Sanders is SPECIFICALLY talking about light rail. If roads and existing infrastructure need repaired thats a pretty sure sign your state is doing a piss poor job of managing their budgets. Tossing federal money at the problem isnt going to fix the problem. The problem isnt your roads, its your state government. If it is a FED highway or road...fine...spend the necessary money.

    No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate infrastructure. No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate state and local taxes. Quite the opposite.

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    This OP and thread wasnt ABOUT roads. Sen Sanders is SPECIFICALLY talking about light rail. If roads and existing infrastructure need repaired thats a pretty sure sign your state is doing a piss poor job of managing their budgets. Tossing federal money at the problem isnt going to fix the problem. The problem isnt your roads, its your state government. If it is a FED highway or road...fine...spend the necessary money.
    No he didn't, Vance. Watch the video again. He very clearly said "roads and bridges and rail systems."

    No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate infrastructure. No one is suggesting there shouldnt be adequate state and local taxes. Quite the opposite.
    I don't believe you. Otherwise, this infrastructure bill would have passed with flying colors.
    Last edited by Phys251; 11-04-11 at 08:30 PM.
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Is there any evidence that our infrastructure is lacking? It seems like roads are being repaved whether they need it or not. Is this another example of politicians buying votes by spending other people's money?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    A certifiable 'genius'. Add hundreds of billions to the debt payed for by future generations, on systems that will require hundreds of billions to operate for as long as they are in operation. Why...I just cant see how ANYONE can have a problem with that concept. Except of course the people in the states on the hook for paying for the services.

    He is certifiable alright. However it is NOT shocking that a union hack would think this is a great idea. Who cares if it isnt economically viable...mo debt, mo spending equals mo union jobs.

    Say...if this makes so much sense, why arent the unions invested in spending their union employees dues on private investment into such ideas?
    Its bad enough to see fit to attack Senator Sanders for trying to help America... but attempting to get in a second cheap shot on me, plus an even worse cheap shots of unions themselves speaks volumes about you and your style.
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Is there any evidence that our infrastructure is lacking? It seems like roads are being repaved whether they need it or not. Is this another example of politicians buying votes by spending other people's money?
    It's a honest question, but it begs an honest answer.

    Study: $2 trillion needed for U.S. infrastructure - The Washington Post
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    And unfortunately, it would be hard to argue for a 2 trillion dollar increase in funding now.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Infrastructure spending has gone steadily up over the decades.
    We've continued to invest mightily into it.

    Only recently, has spending sort of leveled off.

    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/119xx/doc11940/11-17-Infrastructure.pdf
    I read this and I'm not sure I understand it. Is infrastructure spending growing and taking into consideration inflation and the new roads being built? Or is it just more money being sent without acknowledging the myriad of other factors?
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    I participate in an international forum similar to this one (mostly read there as I have little to add to what they already know). The US is viewed as a very young country that has peaked and is going down the tubes because it does not understand that failing to take care of the basic needs of the citizens (food, shelter, means of livelihood, healthcare) and taking care of the basic needs of the economy (infrastructure and availability of capital) has been the downfall of many, many countries.
    What do you think happened to the USSR? The USA is headed down the same path. Failing to recognize this and fix it will result in the same fate for the USA. Too big to fail? Don't bet on it.
    I have often said this about a particular political party (as they are worst of the offenders), but its true of America as a whole. The metaphor involves a 46 year old man who, at 18, WAS the local high school football star. Once upon a time he was the big man on campus, always with a babe under his arm. Now, he is a 46 year old fat, balding man who sells Chevrolet's for a living. Yet, when he looks i hn the mirror, all he sees is the 18 year old stud. Yes, America is (Americans are) arrogant, living in the glory of its past and unable to see the fat slob it has become. Sorry, but you will never get your self into shape until you are terrified by how out of shape and ugly you have become.

    One of the fundamental principals of business is that a successful firm never rests on its laurels. It is constantly challenging itself to offer better products, cheaper; constantly re-inventing itself. You will never get into that mindset until you can be critical of yourself, which Americans can not seem to do.

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