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Thread: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

  1. #21
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    No - it's not very pragmatic.
    Why not?

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Why not?

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Reasons pretty much already laid out in this thread:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...ck-survey.html
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Reasons pretty much already laid out in this thread:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...ck-survey.html
    So, there's already been a discussion of this subject. OK, no need to bring it up again.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Bernie Sanders is the #1 BEST Senator in the Senate.
    A certifiable 'genius'. Add hundreds of billions to the debt payed for by future generations, on systems that will require hundreds of billions to operate for as long as they are in operation. Why...I just cant see how ANYONE can have a problem with that concept. Except of course the people in the states on the hook for paying for the services.

    He is certifiable alright. However it is NOT shocking that a union hack would think this is a great idea. Who cares if it isnt economically viable...mo debt, mo spending equals mo union jobs.

    Say...if this makes so much sense, why arent the unions invested in spending their union employees dues on private investment into such ideas?

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Except that transportation infrastructure is just as important to an economy as low tax rates.

    I know this is anecdotal, but I've got a friend in his early 20's who lives in a suburb in Arizona. While there are jobs in the urban areas, there are no jobs in the suburbs. So for him to get employed, he needs a way to get back and forth between his home and those areas of job opportunities.

    But he can't afford a car himself, and the distance is too far and too dangerous to travel back and forth with on his bicycle. Which means he needs that public transportation infrastructure in order to go to those job opportunities that are in areas away from his residence.

    So I think that building up our public transportation systems, and reforming them (by mandating every street built with federal funds have both sidewalks and separate bikeways, for instance) will actually help our economy by allowing the poor unemployed go where the jobs are.
    He can call for a taxi, use a friend, etc.

    The fact is that public transit is a long term, consistently indebted cost for the majority of places around the U.S.
    There are a few exceptions, but I highly doubt the burbs of Arizona is one of them.
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    "Historically, cost overruns for rail projects nearly always arise and can be enormous. Consider a few examples. In Florida, the rail system proposed for Hillsborough County was originally estimated to cost $70 million per mile, but estimates now range from $85 to $120 million per mile. Chris Christie recently made national headlines for abandoning the ARC rail tunnel project that would have connected New York and New Jersey. The project was initially supposed to cost $5 million but projections have recent to $14 billion. With the federal government's share capped at $6 billion, undertaking the project could have left taxpayers on the hook for billions. The most infamous rail cost overrun was Boston's Big Dig, which was supposed to cost $2 billion back when the project was started in 1982. When the projected was finished 23 years later, the total bill came in at $15 billion, for which the state was forced to pay half. In other words, Massachusetts' share of the Big Dig ended up being over 3 times the total estimated cost."

    And thats just for the cost to build it. States (taxpayers) then have to absorb the deficit to operate it (because the toll proceeds never come close).

    So...when your grandkids come to you and ask how come he or she has to pay for that massive debt you stuck them with...just tell them...well...we didnt want anyone to say we were a laughing stock...so we dropped (on them) about a trillion dollars nationwide into building a system that has over the course of the last 20 years or so has cost them a few trillion more.

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Why do we need to rebuild our infrastructure? Because transportation is essential to an economy. Not a thriving economy, not even a decent economy. An economy, period. And it doesn't take many gaps in the infrastructure to send serious shock waves throughout the area. Just look at what is happening in Louisville, Kentucky, where a major bridge has been shut down because of serious weaknesses in load-bearing structures. And remember the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota a few years ago, and the massive headache it caused? Minnesotans knew how vital it was to rebuild, and they did so in record time.

    There are bridges and roads all over this nation that MUST be repaved, repaired, or in some cases rebuilt. And this stagnant economy is as good a time as any to get workers and engineers employed to do that work. Ignore the naysayers; we NEED to do this. It's the economy, stupid.
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Why do we need to rebuild our infrastructure? Because transportation is essential to an economy. Not a thriving economy, not even a decent economy. An economy, period. And it doesn't take many gaps in the infrastructure to send serious shock waves throughout the area. Just look at what is happening in Louisville, Kentucky, where a major bridge has been shut down because of serious weaknesses in load-bearing structures. And remember the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota a few years ago, and the massive headache it caused? Minnesotans knew how vital it was to rebuild, and they did so in record time.

    There are bridges and roads all over this nation that MUST be repaved, repaired, or in some cases rebuilt. And this stagnant economy is as good a time as any to get workers and engineers employed to do that work. Ignore the naysayers; we NEED to do this. It's the economy, stupid.
    I think there are very few that argue against fixing existing infrastructure.
    The problem is that, some are wanting additional infrastructure, while we can't maintain what we have now.

    It's dumb.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Why do we need to rebuild our infrastructure? Because transportation is essential to an economy. Not a thriving economy, not even a decent economy. An economy, period. And it doesn't take many gaps in the infrastructure to send serious shock waves throughout the area. Just look at what is happening in Louisville, Kentucky, where a major bridge has been shut down because of serious weaknesses in load-bearing structures. And remember the I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota a few years ago, and the massive headache it caused? Minnesotans knew how vital it was to rebuild, and they did so in record time.

    There are bridges and roads all over this nation that MUST be repaved, repaired, or in some cases rebuilt. And this stagnant economy is as good a time as any to get workers and engineers employed to do that work. Ignore the naysayers; we NEED to do this. It's the economy, stupid.
    These proposals arent simply about fixing and maintaining roads. They are proposing projects like light rail that cost 85-110 million a MILE just to put in place, not including the cost of the rolling stock, and not including the cost of maintenance. See...this is the problem. They throw out a few populist ideas with some catch phrases and slogans and hey...why...thats good enough for folks...lets do it!

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    Re: Sen. Bernie Sanders: U.S. becoming laughing stock of the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think there are very few that argue against fixing existing infrastructure.


    We're not talking about building brand-new interstate highways here. Much of what we're talking about here is simply road and bridge maintenance that has been put off for years. We need to stop kicking the can down the road and fix these bridges, NOW.

    The problem is that, some are wanting additional infrastructure, while we can't maintain what we have now.

    It's dumb.
    What are you talking about? Right now, Louisville, Kentucky has a major bridge on a major interstate highway that is CLOSED. Why? Because it has serious structural flaws, to the point where it is literally dangerous to drive over. You know how much that is costing greater Louisville every single day? A LOT. That hurts their economy. All these deficit hawks love to rail about spending, spending, spending, but what they don't stop and THINK about is that in some cases--notice I didn't say "all"!--but in some cases, when you don't spend, crap like this happens.

    Look, if you've got a SPECIFIC project that has even a rudimentary cost-benefit analysis to show that it's just not worth it, I am all ears. Just don't automatically slam it because it's light rail or some crap like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    These proposals arent simply about fixing and maintaining roads. They are proposing projects like light rail that cost 85-110 million a MILE just to put in place, not including the cost of the rolling stock, and not including the cost of maintenance. See...this is the problem. They throw out a few populist ideas with some catch phrases and slogans and hey...why...thats good enough for folks...lets do it!
    Notice I was specifically referring to ROADS? Look, I know conservatives hold a strong contempt for passenger rail. I get that. That's why I intentionally brought up roads. Are you against fixing our roads, too?

    Lemme give you guys an example of one of the many, many situations that need to be rectified. There's a bridge on my drive home that is more than half a century old, is near a major intersection, and thus prevents any sort of road-widening that would help unclog this bottleneck. Every day around rush hour, you can see cars lined up for nearly half a mile waiting to go straight or turn left, all because the road is two lanes instead of the necessary four, something that cannot be fixed until the bridge is. Why is this a bad thing to fix?? Why are WE, the pro-infrastructure improvement people, the ones on the defensive here?? The ones on the defensive should be those that want to block this progress, that want to torpedo the whole process, simply because a process that has been going on for many decades "costs too much." Get over it already! If you don't like infrastructure, why don't you move to the Amazon?
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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