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Thread: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Either way, his service in no way detracts from the fact that he was there disobeying direct orders from police to leave, and others within the crowd, at the very least, were provoking the cops into action. If he wanted to be involved in a "peaceful protest", then he should have left that area and moved somewhere else when those others around him starting becoming violent.
    bingo. i'm a war vet as well - what does that entitle me to in this scenario? it entitles me to share stories and jokes with the cops as they are arresting me after beating my a-- for trying to "retake" something they were ordered to hold.

  2. #102
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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Circumstantial evidence at best. I know that we condemn people to die on less evidence than that, I'm just not among the willing.
    I never said he should be condemned for any of this information. At worst, if it turns out to be him, it may lessen the respect of some of those coming out to support him just because he happened to be a military member, especially a Marine. A few people who were rallying behind the cause just due to his being a Marine may decide it isn't really worth it. Nothing more would really happen if it does come out that he is the same person who owns the ihatethemarinecorps.com website. It would overall just look a little bad.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I never said he should be condemned for any of this information. At worst, if it turns out to be him, it may lessen the respect of some of those coming out to support him just because he happened to be a military member, especially a Marine. A few people who were rallying behind the cause just due to his being a Marine may decide it isn't really worth it. Nothing more would really happen if it does come out that he is the same person who owns the ihatethemarinecorps.com website. It would overall just look a little bad.
    His head looked a little bad too. I see your point, but that webpage looked like something that you might get in a chain email.

    Scott Olsen is famous. If he was a good Marine, that would be a plus. A good movement needs strength. It's rough out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  4. #104
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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    His head looked a little bad too. I see your point, but that webpage looked like something that you might get in a chain email.

    Scott Olsen is famous. If he was a good Marine, that would be a plus. A good movement needs strength. It's rough out there.
    First of all, we still have no more proof that his head was due to direct fire from the police than we do that the webpage was his.

    Second of all, when police tell you to leave the area or they will be deploying chemical means to move you, that should be your clue to move. Considering no one should expect to be able to camp out in the middle of any city or city park just to protest, especially not when such camping is not allowed.

    And if the other people around you start getting violent toward the police during your peaceful protest, move your ass out of the way to another place to protest so the police can deal with those who are getting violent. Not too hard a concept to comprehend.

    As for the movement, I would call the cause good, if not way too general/all-encompassing. The method, however, is ineffective in the long run at actually helping the problems. Just calling for government to make businesses make jobs is not a solution, nor is calling for businesses to stop basically buying politicians. We need real solutions.

    Come up with solutions, not complaints.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, we still have no more proof that his head was due to direct fire from the police than we do that the webpage was his.

    Second of all, when police tell you to leave the area or they will be deploying chemical means to move you, that should be your clue to move. Considering no one should expect to be able to camp out in the middle of any city or city park just to protest, especially not when such camping is not allowed.

    And if the other people around you start getting violent toward the police during your peaceful protest, move your ass out of the way to another place to protest so the police can deal with those who are getting violent. Not too hard a concept to comprehend.

    As for the movement, I would call the cause good, if not way too general/all-encompassing. The method, however, is ineffective in the long run at actually helping the problems. Just calling for government to make businesses make jobs is not a solution, nor is calling for businesses to stop basically buying politicians. We need real solutions.

    Come up with solutions, not complaints.
    The "you" that you are referring to isn't me. I would most certainly move away from any violence. I value my head too much to have it smacked with a club.

    As far as solutions go, there was another thread where someone stated that the protesters were not exactly problem solvers. That is true. The protest is designed to make our nation's problem solvers fix the system. Without the protest, the problems would just be swept under the rug, again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  6. #106
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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    The "you" that you are referring to isn't me. I would most certainly move away from any violence. I value my head too much to have it smacked with a club.

    As far as solutions go, there was another thread where someone stated that the protesters were not exactly problem solvers. That is true. The protest is designed to make our nation's problem solvers fix the system. Without the protest, the problems would just be swept under the rug, again.
    The problems are still going to just be swept under the rug again with protests like this.

    And by God, we should be taking more responsibility for at least coming up with solutions to our own problems. With that many people supporting this movement, I don't see why it would be that hard to get suggestions from them for what they can think of as solutions to the problems. Then, form a committee to actually review those suggestions, possibly tweak them, and start making those solutions a part of the protests. It would garner a lot more attention, and probably more support, if the protesters showed that they were doing more than just complaining about problems.

    Also, very little is going to honestly get done if the protesters do not remain peaceful. This means no anger toward the cops for doing their job. Take your issues to the courts.

    They also need to ensure that others can actually enjoy those parks/areas. Blocking off areas from people who have little to do with your ire is just going to piss those people off, and turn them off to/against the cause.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #107
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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    unemployment rate for those holding a college degree is around 5%.
    For those over 25 with college degrees it's around 5%.

    For those who have graduated recently (under 25, but graduated), unemployment is nearly 15%.

  8. #108
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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    For those over 25 with college degrees it's around 5%.

    For those who have graduated recently (under 25, but graduated), unemployment is nearly 15%.
    Well, they aren't going to get a job by camping out in public parks and burning, looting, vandalizing and assaulting police with deadly weapons thats for damned sure.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    For those over 25 with college degrees it's around 5%.

    For those who have graduated recently (under 25, but graduated), unemployment is nearly 15%.
    How much of that 15% is represented by the fine college gradutes of the International Culinary School, or the California college of Massage Therapy? How many of those are viable 4 year degrees in a field OTHER than Liberal Arts? I can guarantee you there is a shortage at every level in the med fields, social work services, and technical fields. Yes...you may have to move...thats what grown ups do.

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    Re: marines-storm-reddit-after-occupy-oakland-shoot

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The problems are still going to just be swept under the rug again with protests like this.

    And by God, we should be taking more responsibility for at least coming up with solutions to our own problems. With that many people supporting this movement, I don't see why it would be that hard to get suggestions from them for what they can think of as solutions to the problems. Then, form a committee to actually review those suggestions, possibly tweak them, and start making those solutions a part of the protests. It would garner a lot more attention, and probably more support, if the protesters showed that they were doing more than just complaining about problems.

    Also, very little is going to honestly get done if the protesters do not remain peaceful. This means no anger toward the cops for doing their job. Take your issues to the courts.

    They also need to ensure that others can actually enjoy those parks/areas. Blocking off areas from people who have little to do with your ire is just going to piss those people off, and turn them off to/against the cause.
    I would love to come up with solutions for our problems. I just don't know how, or even where to start.

    Why can you bet on a short in the Market? What the Hell is that? I've been to casinos. I know that there's a 'No Pass line' and a 'No Come area' on the Craps tables. Should our whole Capitalist market system be equivalent to a Craps table? That sounds pretty low to me. 'Hedge funds' are just like betting on both teams in the Super Bowl. Who came up with that 'Push'?

    How do banks actually package 'Hot Swap' derivatives, that are nothing more than 'junk', into AAA rated stock packages? Why were they allowed to do something as shameful as that?

    How much insider trading goes on daily without anyone being caught?

    Why is Freddy Mac requesting an additional $6,000,000,000 in bailout funds today? Why will they probably get them from taxpayer money?

    Someone who understands how our economic system works (not me) should chime in and explain to me how and why these things are good for America. In the meantime I'll make a sign and go protest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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