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The 53%: We are NOT Occupy Wall Street

Did you bother to even read your little article or were you just too excited over the headline? "In a report released late Tuesday, CRP found that people in the securities and investment industry have dramatically reversed their campaign contribution trends, shifting from overwhelming support of Democrats in 2009, to an equally overwhelming support of Republicans in 2010" Someone is just a LITTLE bit selective about their outrage and blame...arent you? Both parties have been doing this for decades. Info me...who controlled the house and senate (and thus all spending legislation) in 2008?

And hey...I dont blame you for abandoning the whole "Democrat proposals for deficit cuts" argument...that was a loser from the get-go.

And what was your argument against the Democratic proposals for deficit cuts? You didn't have one. You said it wouldn't be substantial enough, but that's the equivalent of saying that you oppose chemotherapy treatment because a single treatment won't send the patient into remission.

And that was a nice response but you forgot the part where you admit that what you just said - that Democrats are overwhelmingly favored over Republicans by Wall Street donors - was either completely uninformed or completely fabricated. Once again, if you just spent a little more time reading and less time responding these discussions wouldn't require so much dissent.
 
The sad thing is that I think a good portion of people (roughly 53%) are kind of misinterpreting the original intent of OWS.

That's OWS fault for not having a coherent message to begin with. Don't label yourself and you'll be labeled by someone else, I thought everyone knew this. The idea that they have a conslidated "original intent" they deny themselves, as do most of the posters "defending" them here (at least when it suits their argument)
 
You seem to think that the OWS crowd is demanding more welfare benefits, which does not seem to be the case.

Rather, many of the OWSers are young college students who are studying so they can get a good job but are fearful, for a variety of reasons, that there won't be any that pays the salary level they need to pay off the loans they accrue.

I wonder how many of these people "fearful" about that could've worked during high school and summers to save up money to pay for a portion of their tuition rather than doing it all in loans, but chose not to do it or chose to do it but then chose to use the money on recreational things.

I wonder how many of these people "fearful" about that could've attended a less expensive in state university but chose to attend a larger, private, or out of state university that cost significantly more.

I wonder how many of these people "fearful" about that applied for the vast amount of scholarships that are available and used them to lower the amount of loans they took out, and how many didn't.

I'm not saying any that made the choices listed above and are now "fearful" about paying off their loans and are protesting are whiners, or are even necessarily wrong. I have empathy for the fact they are in a tough spot. However, I do not have empathy for their seeming choice to not acknowledge some of their own potential decisions that lead to the issue but rather to simply blame "wall street" and "the rich" for their problems of student loans.

Are there issues with regards to Wall Street, Corporations, and the Government in regards to the job crisis. Absolutely, and it plays into them not being able to repay their student loans. However, their decisions...made for legitimate or illegitimate reasons...ALSO play into it and they are simply being dishonest to ignore that.

Going to college is not a gaurantee you will get a job. It is not a right to go to the specific college you wish to attend. The choices you make in regards to what college you attend and how you pay for that college is your own, not some corporations.
 
The sad thing is that I think a good portion of people (roughly 53%) are kind of misinterpreting the original intent of OWS. I think it has more to do with protesting the current state the economy is in and the way the government bends to corporate interests instead of the 99% of people who aren't rich. I don't think the intent of OWS is to say, "Wahhhh!!! Rich people have more money than me!!!", though I'm sure there are some involved in OWS who feel that way.

The funny thing is, what's happening to OWS is much the same as what's happening with the Tea Party.

There was an original message. The portion of the media disliking the particular movement ignores that message, minimizes that message, and focuses on the smaller percentage of people saying stupid ****, saying inflamatory stuff, or saying things that are not the direct primary message of the movement and protraying that as the main portion.

What is funny is watching people on both sides acting in 180 degrees from the way they acted when it was done to the Tea Party
 
And what was your argument against the Democratic proposals for deficit cuts? You didn't have one. You said it wouldn't be substantial enough, but that's the equivalent of saying that you oppose chemotherapy treatment because a single treatment won't send the patient into remission.

And that was a nice response but you forgot the part where you admit that what you just said - that Democrats are overwhelmingly favored over Republicans by Wall Street donors - was either completely uninformed or completely fabricated. Once again, if you just spent a little more time reading and less time responding these discussions wouldn't require so much dissent.
Are you serious? What was the argument over spending cuts? That you consider adding 10 trillion to the national debt over 10 years and crow about the possibility of...well...at least it isnt 13...

...dont forget to kick your grandkids. Hard. Laugh at them. Gotta toughen em up for what you are going to stick them with.

The article YOU CITED shows democrats and republicans...back and forth lining their pockets. Its the flavor of the month club. Who contributed to Obamas campaign? And did you happen to see who he just hired as a senior adviser? Oh yeah baby...way to take a stand against that Wall Street influence on politicians.
 
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That's OWS fault for not having a coherent message to begin with. Don't label yourself and you'll be labeled by someone else, I thought everyone knew this. The idea that they have a conslidated "original intent" they deny themselves, as do most of the posters "defending" them here (at least when it suits their argument)

They did have a clear message to begin with. However, it's become muddled mainly because of the random loony people that have been interviewed and the fact that the entire OWS thing has been labeled as "liberal" even though it really isn't.
 
Are you serious? What was the argument over spending cuts? That you consider adding 10 trillion to the national debt over 10 years and crow about the possibility of...well...at least it isnt 13...

...dont forget to kick your grandkids. Hard. Laugh at them. Gotta toughen em up for what you are going to stick them with.

The article YOU CITED shows democrats and republicans...back and forth lining their pockets. Its the flavor of the month club. Who contributed to Obamas campaign? And did you happen to see who he just hired as a senior adviser? Oh yeah baby...way to take a stand against that Wall Street influence on politicians.

That's a pretty weak example of the Dems being "owned" by wall street. Your portrayal as both sides being owned by bankers and brokers just doesn't hold up to what's happened over the last two years. I understand you not wanting to concede that because you'd be admitting that you made false or uneducated statements and apparently you'd prefer people to believe you are infallible. Whatever.

I do believe that the majority of our congressional members operate with the knowledge that they have to cater to corporate interests because that's who runs the game in this country. I don't deny that. But I do think that position is the status quo on the right and in decreasing favor on the left, there's definitely a difference. And the one member of congress who i actively participated in campaigning for, Al Franken, has been bold in his dealings with the financial sector and if every elected democrat had his integrity, we'd be much better off. That's where I'm standing, and as you can see by my posting history, I have no interest in repeating myself and demanding the last word, so you can savor it for yourself.
 
Cute, a GI telling me, a 20 year framing carpenter about hard work.

not just hard work, but responsible fiscal behavior. And I'm a Marine :) there is a difference.
 
:doh

failure. all three of those guys will end up way ahead. I'm making fairly middling pay (i'm an E-5 in the military with a family, our pay is readily available online), and I'm doing pretty good and will likely end up a multi-millionaire. you work hard in the beginning, and then you achieve in the end. if you don't get blessed with amazing riches in the beginning, that's fine - that's why you work for it.

Let's be honest here, a large chunk of your pay is via food provided, housing provided, completely free insurance etc. You're basically living the socialists dream.
 
Let's be honest here, a large chunk of your pay is via food provided, housing provided, completely free insurance etc. You're basically living the socialists dream.

And you were in the military, sucking up the "socialist's dream" ...... when ?
 
No, no despite the fact that most anyone can do a military job it magically endows them with not leech status, the benefits are not the reason they join, its out of the purity of their hearts.... why theyd give up being payed by the state if they could!
 
That's a pretty weak example of the Dems being "owned" by wall street. Your portrayal as both sides being owned by bankers and brokers just doesn't hold up to what's happened over the last two years. I understand you not wanting to concede that because you'd be admitting that you made false or uneducated statements and apparently you'd prefer people to believe you are infallible. Whatever.

I do believe that the majority of our congressional members operate with the knowledge that they have to cater to corporate interests because that's who runs the game in this country. I don't deny that. But I do think that position is the status quo on the right and in decreasing favor on the left, there's definitely a difference. And the one member of congress who i actively participated in campaigning for, Al Franken, has been bold in his dealings with the financial sector and if every elected democrat had his integrity, we'd be much better off. That's where I'm standing, and as you can see by my posting history, I have no interest in repeating myself and demanding the last word, so you can savor it for yourself.
Of course you see it that way. They count on you seeing it that way. It is what has enabled them to run up a 15 trillion dollar debt...all those 'liitle people' that pretend there is a difference and they are on the 'good' side.
 
Let's be honest here, a large chunk of your pay is via food provided, housing provided, completely free insurance etc. You're basically living the socialists dream.
Does your socialist dream involve multiple deployments, separation from family, getting shot at, all for low pay?

On the plus side, nice to see we dont have to scratch very deep beneath the surface to see the typical liberal disdain for the military.
 
Does your socialist dream involve multiple deployments, separation from family, getting shot at, all for low pay?

On the plus side, nice to see we dont have to scratch very deep beneath the surface to see the typical liberal disdain for the military.

Ha, you must of missed where I mentioned I was in the Army from 03-06 and it included a deployment to Baghdad with 1st Cav.

I definately don't disdain the military in fact completely the opposite. Military healthcare is the only TRUE socialist medicine outside of Cuba and everything is virtually provided. So much so I saved 30k in my one year deployment on E-4 pay.
 
The 53% rebuttal has some good points, but the way it's manifesting is through partisan garbage. They perceive the OWS as liberal populism only, and they move to combat it by creating a polar opposite movement. This is what's wrong with America today. The people are so divided and fighting among themselves that the government and corporate powers can have free reign. That's what happens when your logic and sensibilities are shut down by emotional hyperbole.

Many of the 53%'s arguments are already encompassed by the OWS movement, but a lot of their rebuttals are based on what they are reading in the media and are having emotional responses to. Maybe if they actually went down to their local Occupy protest and asked questions of real people, they would realize that they have more in common than first though. Of course, this is the LAST thing the government wants to happen, so they will keep sending their corporate mass media lackies out to keep the people divided into liberal/conservative.

I swear... the day that liberals and conservatives come together under one banner, is the day that this government will probably send its military into major cities to stop the protesting. It'd be like two opposite charges coming together to create something powerful.
 
The 53% rebuttal has some good points, but the way it's manifesting is through partisan garbage. They perceive the OWS as liberal populism only, and they move to combat it by creating a polar opposite movement. This is what's wrong with America today. The people are so divided and fighting among themselves that the government and corporate powers can have free reign. That's what happens when your logic and sensibilities are shut down by emotional hyperbole.

I agree...divide and conquer. Conservatives were protesting the bailouts just a couple of years ago. Liberals are protesting crony capitalism. It's virtually the same thing but instead hyper partisan media is spinning it into a left vs right issue.
 
I think it was idiotic for the wall street protesters to call themselves the 99% considering the fact there is a good sizable percentage that make over a 100,000 a year that the OWS would want to make pay more taxes.

The 53%: Occupy Wall Street backlash - Oct. 26, 2011

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Occupy Wall Street protesters might say they represent 99% of the nation, but there's a growing number of Americans who are making it clear they are not part of the dissident crowd.
They call themselves the 53%...as in the 53% of Americans who pay federal income taxes. And they are making their voices heard on Tumblr blogs, Twitter and Facebook pages devoted to stories of personal responsibility and work ethic.
The number originates in the estimate that roughly 47% of Americans don't pay federal income tax, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The 53 percenters stress the fact that they are paying the taxes that support the government assistance the protesters say they want.

I know! Those OWS folk should just get a job! What's that you say? Over 9% sustained unemployment? Nearly 1 out of every 10 people looking can't find jobs? Well...*cough*...get jobs, it's not like this corporate capitalism thing caused this. What's that you say? The preferential treatment in markets, lack of proper oversight in proper areas, tax breaks, subsidies, bail outs all helped to promote the overall irresponsibility of the market players who then knowingly over leveraged and when a bubble broke found themselves in dire straights and the government nearly immediately used tax payer money to bail them out and secure the future of the banks and Wall Street but when Main Street is in so much pain all the government can do is point fingers at its pretend sides and not get anything accomplished thus drawing out the sustained 9% + unemployment, impoverishing the rest of middle class and lower class America? Well...*cough* still....those OWS guys should just get jobs!

I often have to wonder if anyone actually thinks anymore.
 
I know! Those OWS folk should just get a job! What's that you say? Over 9% sustained unemployment? Nearly 1 out of every 10 people looking can't find jobs?


A lot of them have full time jobs if they haven't lost them yet.
 
Ha, you must of missed where I mentioned I was in the Army from 03-06 and it included a deployment to Baghdad with 1st Cav.

I definately don't disdain the military in fact completely the opposite. Military healthcare is the only TRUE socialist medicine outside of Cuba and everything is virtually provided. So much so I saved 30k in my one year deployment on E-4 pay.
Didnt miss it. The bonehead that got popped in Oakland was a former marine. Ddnt stop him from wrting his anti-military "**** the Marine Corps" blog.

How much did you get paid while you were in? How many times did you recieve your benefit sheet indicating how much your 'socialized' medicine was actually worth as a benefit? You REALLY dont think military personnel PAY for those benefits? The low base pay is a part of a give and take. In any other job you would be compensated at a much higher rate. In a unions job...can you IMAGINE what the government would pay for soldiers, overtime, deployments, etc. It takes a special kind of mindset to declare the military a 'socialist' organization.
 
The 53% rebuttal has some good points, but the way it's manifesting is through partisan garbage. They perceive the OWS as liberal populism only, and they move to combat it by creating a polar opposite movement. This is what's wrong with America today. The people are so divided and fighting among themselves that the government and corporate powers can have free reign. That's what happens when your logic and sensibilities are shut down by emotional hyperbole.

Many of the 53%'s arguments are already encompassed by the OWS movement, but a lot of their rebuttals are based on what they are reading in the media and are having emotional responses to. Maybe if they actually went down to their local Occupy protest and asked questions of real people, they would realize that they have more in common than first though. Of course, this is the LAST thing the government wants to happen, so they will keep sending their corporate mass media lackies out to keep the people divided into liberal/conservative.

I swear... the day that liberals and conservatives come together under one banner, is the day that this government will probably send its military into major cities to stop the protesting. It'd be like two opposite charges coming together to create something powerful.
The 53% folks present ideological differences that are diametrically opposed to the message and cause of the '47%'. Most Americans dont run around blaming others for their own situation. They dont resent the successful. They work hard to create success and arent foolish enough to believe a country can tax and spend itself into prosperity. They recognize who creates wealth and jobs in this country. The vast majority of the 47% blame republicans for everything and vote straight democrat ticket (at the end of the day thats ALL this movement is-another get out the vote measure). Add to that difference the leeches that had no problem taking out studfent loans insured by the government to give to their preachers at the Universities and then blame the banks for the student loan debt they ran up...the people that blame the banks for their own stupidity in purchasing homes...
nah...there isnt much common ground.
How many of you that just...golly...really support the people on the right as well as the left were tripping over yourselves to ridicule the Tea Party and their efforts to end the bank bailouts, end big government, and to promote fiscal responsibility? Oh...but thats different...right?
 
I know! Those OWS folk should just get a job! What's that you say? Over 9% sustained unemployment? Nearly 1 out of every 10 people looking can't find jobs? Well...*cough*...get jobs, it's not like this corporate capitalism thing caused this. What's that you say? The preferential treatment in markets, lack of proper oversight in proper areas, tax breaks, subsidies, bail outs all helped to promote the overall irresponsibility of the market players who then knowingly over leveraged and when a bubble broke found themselves in dire straights and the government nearly immediately used tax payer money to bail them out and secure the future of the banks and Wall Street but when Main Street is in so much pain all the government can do is point fingers at its pretend sides and not get anything accomplished thus drawing out the sustained 9% + unemployment, impoverishing the rest of middle class and lower class America? Well...*cough* still....those OWS guys should just get jobs!

I often have to wonder if anyone actually thinks anymore.
Recent figures show that unemployment amongst college graduates today is still 4.7-5% and that they start at well above the median income. And funny but for a country with 'no jobs' we still have illegal immigrants pouring in and finding work. We have 114 legal immigrants an HOUR coming into this country and finding work. Yes...sometimes that is (gasp) menial labor and entry level work. Sometimes you have to work two of those jobs to make ends meet. Welcome to the real world. Next?
 
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