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Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

I'm curious - to those who think what the police did was wrong from the get-go....what should the police have done with a large crowd of people throwing things at them?
 
Josie said:
I'm curious - to those who think what the police did was wrong from the get-go....what should the police have done with a large crowd of people throwing things at them?
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I would have been ok if rubber bullets were not used and other forms of crowd control such as pain rays, immobile foam, etc.

The tear gas and flash grenades do not have a possibility or a very low possibility for long term physical damage.
 
megaprogman said:
I would have been ok if rubber bullets were not used and other forms of crowd control such as pain rays, immobile foam, etc.

The tear gas and flash grenades do not have a possibility or a very low possibility for long term physical damage.
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I don't think pain rays are widely distributed in the US police force, correct me if I'm mistaken

Tear gas and flash grenades does hurt when in close proximity, but won't leave any long term physical damage, though there are rare exceptions
 
Proud South Korean said:
I don't think pain rays are widely distributed in the US police force, correct me if I'm mistaken

Tear gas and flash grenades does hurt when in close proximity, but won't leave any long term physical damage, though there are rare exceptions
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Yeah, thats my point, lack of long term damage makes them more acceptable.
 
I may have missed it...has anyone addressed what prompted this so-called police atrocity?
 
mac said:
I may have missed it...has anyone addressed what prompted this so-called police atrocity?
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Well, according to this thread, that depends on who you ask. If you ask the police, they say the protestors were charging the police line. If you ask the protestors, they say we were sleeping in our tents when flash bangs and tear gas started going off. (Exaggerated of course). Personally, I think the protestors were MOSTLY peacefully protesting. The police came in and told them to leave. Then, a couple assholes probably threw m-80's at the police (Remember a couple out of a thousand). They then proceeded to shoot tear gas and throw flash bangs at the protestors. If you ask me if this was overboard I'd say yes. They should've just arrested the two or three assholes who were throwing m-80's, then if the rest joined in use crowd control. I still think whoever threw that flashbang into those people trying to help the injured vet should be reprimanded. Anywho that's just my two cents on the subject.
 
mac said:
I may have missed it...has anyone addressed what prompted this so-called police atrocity?
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1. They refused to leave.
2. They started throwing things at the police.
 
mac said:
I may have missed it...has anyone addressed what prompted this so-called police atrocity?
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No, that subject has been avoided like the plague. :rofl
 
Lawrence O'Donnell had a protester on his show the other night. I think he actually thought she was going to say what he wanted her to say, but she didn't...

 
Serenity said:
Agree with the majority of your post Cain but someone with your experience as a Police Officer should know better than to say something like this. You've never arrived on the scene and an out of uniform Medic has already administered assistance to someone? Since when do Medics only attend to injured person (s) if they have their uniform on?

I've helped people whilst off duty. It's automatic. If you come across someone injured you don't ignore it because you are out of uniform.
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Yes but the contention that I was battling was a suggestion from another poster that medical personnel who were on scene (staged) to treat injured were prevented from helping. In order to be prevented from helping you have to be trying.

A. All those people who went up to him eventually did get back up to him and pick him up and walk him away from there... as evidenced in another video.
B. In that video... the group of people carrying him are screaming MEDIC! MEDIC! which they wouldnt be doing if they were in fact medics..
 
Swit said:
What slippery slope... all I see are
A false premise (that camping would somehow become a de facto Constitutional Right as a result of allowing occupiers to protest there)
A false analogy - How on earth do you try to compare an enumerated Constitutionally protected Right to camping.
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Why don't you ask Ikari those questions..... It is his contention that Camping should be allowed if it is in the name of "assembly and free speech". From all that I can tell, there should be nothing stopping the Occupiers from rolling out a sleeping bag in the Mayors office.

A couple of extremely narrowly constructed logical leaps that assume once a problem has arisen there can be no solution but failure, and a whole lot more "the sky is falling" illogical assumptions as opposed to progressions.

and to quote you, who appears to be a staunch supporter not allowing this type of behavior:

According to your parallel universe of absolutes and polar thinking..... Exactly where you want to be. with people NOT having the ability do engage in this type of behavior..... So how does this help your case? Sounds to me like you just came up with the solution.... and according to your own logic..... it appears to be to let them continue do it.
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Im not a fan of the camping.
Protest, then go sleep somewhere like a normal person, then come back and protest again... Im all good with that.

But camping out creates lots of problems.
 
Kali said:
Excessive force and police brutality = BAD!!

The right to protest = Good and a RIGHT!!
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Urrr.. *Grunt* Protest GOOD

Urrr.. *Grunt* Camping BAAAAD
 
haymarket said:
It is easy enough to understand. Some of the people who express the most hostility towards demonstrators and the most support for the police action are motivated by their own ideological and political bias. Some, from time to time, pretend that they actually care about such vague concepts as LIBERTY and FREEDOM but they only trot out those tired cliches when it is to the advantage of their side. In reality, they are warriors of the right wing and are only happy to attempt to crush anyone on the left that is viewed through their extreme ideological perspective as the enemy.
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Blah Blah Blah Blah Partisan Bull**** Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Come back when you can debate the topic, which is about Oakland Police Attacking Protesters....

Nowhere in that topic is this a Liberal Conservative Right Wing Left Wing Democrat Republican ****storm that you are trying to turn it into.
 
Josie said:
Lawrence O'Donnell had a protester on his show the other night. I think he actually thought she was going to say what he wanted her to say, but she didn't...

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LOL... I find her reasoning to be ignorant as hell.

"I think their response was completely overboard for people throwing bottles and rocks at police in full riot gear."

So where is that logic going... Im not supposed to shoot back if a guy shoots a gun at me because Im wearing a protective vest?????
 
haymarket said:
It is easy enough to understand. Some of the people who express the most hostility towards demonstrators and the most support for the police action are motivated by their own ideological and political bias. Some, from time to time, pretend that they actually care about such vague concepts as LIBERTY and FREEDOM but they only trot out those tired cliches when it is to the advantage of their side. In reality, they are warriors of the right wing and are only happy to attempt to crush anyone on the left that is viewed through their extreme ideological perspective as the enemy.
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I'm going to carry a concealed firearm, no permit, anywhere, anytime. You down with that?
 
apdst said:
I'm going to carry a concealed firearm, no permit, anywhere, anytime. You down with that?
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Sure, but I am not going to help you pay your fine or serve your jail time for you.

And since you agree that it is ok to sometimes to illegal things in pursuit of what you perceive as rights, I expect you to give more leeway to the OWS people.
 
megaprogman said:
Sure, but I am not going to help you pay your fine or serve your jail time for you.

And since you agree that it is ok to sometimes to illegal things in pursuit of what you perceive as rights, I expect you to give more leeway to the OWS people.
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You missed his point.......

His point was that those who are saying it is okay for these protesters to do whatever they want to/on public lands in the name of assmebly and protest (because we must hold the right of assembly above all other laws) would feel very different if we did the same for the 2ND amendment and the laws restricting it.
 
Caine said:
You missed his point.......

His point was that those who are saying it is okay for these protesters to do whatever they want to/on public lands in the name of assmebly and protest (because we must hold the right of assembly above all other laws) would feel very different if we did the same for the 2ND amendment and the laws restricting it.
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I think both things are fundamentally the same argument. Its a morality vs legality consideration.
 
apdst said:
I'm going to carry a concealed firearm, no permit, anywhere, anytime. You down with that?
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Here in Arizona you don't need a permit to carry concealed or exposed firearms. Conservative state with lots of freedom.
 
megaprogman said:
Sure, but I am not going to help you pay your fine or serve your jail time for you.

And since you agree that it is ok to sometimes to illegal things in pursuit of what you perceive as rights, I expect you to give more leeway to the OWS people.
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I shouldn't go to jail, or be fined, because the Constitution says that my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon. Why do you want to take my rights ways from me?

Why do you hate freedom, liberty and the Constitution. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Right?
 
apdst said:
I shouldn't go to jail, or be fined, because the Constitution says that my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon. Why do you want to take my rights ways from me?

Why do you hate freedom, liberty and the Constitution. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Right?
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So you believe this to be an absolute right with no limits, borders or boundaries of any kind or in any way, shape or form?
 
Caine said:
Blah Blah Blah Blah Partisan Bull**** Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Come back when you can debate the topic, which is about Oakland Police Attacking Protesters....

Nowhere in that topic is this a Liberal Conservative Right Wing Left Wing Democrat Republican ****storm that you are trying to turn it into.
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Thank you for providing 100% validation for the very post from me you ranted against

It is easy enough to understand. Some of the people who express the most hostility towards demonstrators and the most support for the police action are motivated by their own ideological and political bias. Some, from time to time, pretend that they actually care about such vague concepts as LIBERTY and FREEDOM but they only trot out those tired cliches when it is to the advantage of their side. In reality, they are warriors of the right wing and are only happy to attempt to crush anyone on the left that is viewed through their extreme ideological perspective as the enemy.
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this is really much much too easy. You can predict in broad daylight how some will react and they still will do it despite being called out in advance. Amazing.
 
haymarket said:
Thank you for providing 100% validation for the very post from me you ranted against



this is really much much too easy. You can predict in broad daylight how some will react and they still will do it despite being called out in advance. Amazing.
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Umm... My opposition to the protesters position has nothing to do with political biases.

It has everything to do with the fact that they are breaking a law, and when asked to leave refused to do so and attacked police (as evidenced by the protester on the MSNBC video herself) before any attempt to disburse the crowd was used.

Of course, her reasoning behind throwing stuff at the police is retarded in itself "But they were wearing riot gear!!"
 
Caine said:
Umm... My opposition to the protesters position has nothing to do with political biases.

It has everything to do with the fact that they are breaking a law, and when asked to leave refused to do so and attacked police (as evidenced by the protester on the MSNBC video herself) before any attempt to disburse the crowd was used.

Of course, her reasoning behind throwing stuff at the police is retarded in itself "But they were wearing riot gear!!"
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If someone assaults a police officer, they should be arrested.
 
haymarket said:
If someone assaults a police officer, they should be arrested.
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Yes, they should.

But when violence comes from an assembly of angry people shouting obscenities at you, and it is impossible to determine who the many assailants are..... THAT constitutes an unlawful assembly... and then people are legally ordered to disburse. Failure to do so will result in MAKING them disburse. Which is what happened here.

The injury was an accidental result of an attempt to control Chaos.


Even if police WERE able to exactly pinpoint the many assailants, do you think it is wise from a standpoint of safety for officers to to INTO an angry crowd to attempt to arrest someone???


If only police were such wizards that they could shoot a lazer beam at a specific target in a giant crowd and that lazer beam them grabs them and lifts them up above the rest and then brings that person to them for arresting purposes.....

If only....

Reality is... You participate in an angry mob and refuse to leave.... You take the responsibility for what happens to you in your own hands.
 
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