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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

  1. #521
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Well, it's not just the gun issue and its not just by people that I tend to side with, politically speaking. can we at least agree that these distractions tend to happen often, and from both sides?

    Why are people so concerned with "winning the argument" as opposed to "figuring out the solution"?

    EDIT: Nevermind... I will start another thread, I just now attempted to start a conversation here that has nothing to do with the thread.... please disregard.... my apologies.
    No worries. I appreciate the fact that you are willing to go point/counterpoint without all the red herrings, strawmen, and diversion tactics and can therefore have a debate instead of a screaming match. I don't care about winning the argument because nobody actually learns anything, but it is impossible under circumstances when someone just has to prove their case rather then debate to keep from trying to defeat bad points rather than discuss at times.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No worries. I appreciate the fact that you are willing to go point/counterpoint without all the red herrings, strawmen, and diversion tactics and can therefore have a debate instead of a screaming match. I don't care about winning the argument because nobody actually learns anything, but it is impossible under circumstances when someone just has to prove their case rather then debate to keep from trying to defeat bad points rather than discuss at times.
    Well if nothing else you and I at least know where each other stand with this issue, while we may disagree on some of the finer points, it occurred to me that you understood where I was coming from, and I believe that in general I believe that I understand where you are coming from. I am curious though, given our two differing viewpoints, and from a selfish perspective could you ever, in your own mind, see a situation where these people could remain in the park (relatively indefinitely, i.e. until they themselves chose to disperse) or is this an unacceptable situation?

    Just an academic question.

    EDIT: In other words, what would it take for you, personally, to support the protesters right to remain and try and perpetuate their message?
    Last edited by Swit; 11-01-11 at 05:17 AM. Reason: I believe my question was overly vague

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    So...after several days we have an interview on MSNBC where an Occupy Oakland protester ADMITS that the protesters started the conflict with the police by throwing rocks and bottles at the bolice. So...like the other...this thread I assume is now finished...right?

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Well if nothing else you and I at least know where each other stand with this issue, while we may disagree on some of the finer points, it occurred to me that you understood where I was coming from, and I believe that in general I believe that I understand where you are coming from. I am curious though, given our two differing viewpoints, and from a selfish perspective could you ever, in your own mind, see a situation where these people could remain in the park (relatively indefinitely, i.e. until they themselves chose to disperse) or is this an unacceptable situation?

    Just an academic question.

    EDIT: In other words, what would it take for you, personally, to support the protesters right to remain and try and perpetuate their message?
    I could support them if they did a few things: 1) Tone down the rhetoric a little bit, or at least control the ones in the crowd who are out of line 2) Show proof of an effort to keep public sanitation and safety upheld to the highest standard possible under the circumstances. 3) Petition the city to suspend the camping ordinance based on 1 and 2.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    And the thread has been derailed again. Really? gun control?!?!? How does this relate to the eviction of Oakland occupiers?
    well, I guess it could lead to a discussion of the proper utilization of force by the state during the exercising of ones right...

    while keeping and bearing arms, are there times when state can utilize force to make you cease and desist?.... sure there are.
    before being able to keep and bear arms, are there limits, such as time , place, or manner?... sure there are.

    there are no civil rights enumerated in the Constitution that are limitless.
    people will forever disagree on what those limits can or should be, but the limits are there nonetheless..... the OWS crowd would be do themselves to clue themselves into this fact.

    I'm a rabid defender of 2nd amendment rights, but even I don't pretend there are no limits.


    as far as protesting rights go , they are not limitless ... there can be reasonable limits put on protests/gatherings.
    these limits cannot be designed to quell the speech, but must be designed to further legitimate regulatory objectives.. like ensuring traffic is not messed with, or nearby activities, or for public health reasons .. etc.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter, replying to Swit View Post
    You are kinda reading a little too far into it. I don't care what the protesters do to each other, what I don't want them doing is infringing on the rights of others who have to be in that area because of non-protest factors such as living there or working in the area or owning property. It's not okay to subject them to the dangers of human waste, [...]
    OK then I did in fact understand your statement correctly the first time.

    How have they endangered non-protesters? Dangers of human waste? I don't even know what that means, [...]
    Don't eat the yellow snow?

    Seriously, it means nothing. There is no proof of it even happening... although I hesitate to generalize, there is sufficient evidence on this particular subject to show that the right simply makes stuff up, or glibly believes stuff that other people make up, or at the very least repeats in an automatous fashion.

    Today Rush said that the Obama White House is behind the OWS protests. 'nuff said

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yes, because if National News didn't report it..... It didn't happen Hint/Tip: All sexual assault crimes are not national news.
    In other words, we must take your (or others) word for it. While that may work well in elementary school, some of us have indeed attained an age greater than 12. Mentally, as well as physically. Should I mention IQ points? No, that would be overkill....
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    In order to not waste bandwidth, nor waste the time of those capable of critical thought, I don't explain the obvious.
    Gee, what an intriguing response. You being rather partisan, I doubt your ability to use evidence to back up your claims. I suggest you provide evidence for your ridiculous claims, or else be deemed not credible for being biased. One capable of critical thought would never make such ridiculous claims.
    Congratulations on one, large, cohesive, personal attack. Now -- do you have a rational argument to present? [...]
    Pot... meet kettle.....
    Once again, your argument is a clear failure. (Hint/Tip: that is not a personal attack).

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    [...] I'm a rabid defender of 2nd amendment rights, but even I don't pretend there are no limits. [...]
    That sound you hear is the Tea Party setting fire to your house. Run!

  9. #529
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So...after several days we have an interview on MSNBC where an Occupy Oakland protester ADMITS that the protesters started the conflict with the police by throwing rocks and bottles at the bolice. So...like the other...this thread I assume is now finished...right?
    Wrong. The police, en masse, all Rambo'd up, initiated the conflict by issuing an ultimatum involving the use of force.

    Watch the video again.

    Oh, sorry... you didn't provide a link to the video. Here, let me do your job for you :


  10. #530
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Wrong. The police, en masse, all Rambo'd up, initiated the conflict by issuing an ultimatum involving the use of force.

    Watch the video again.

    Oh, sorry... you didn't provide a link to the video. Here, let me do your job for you :

    LOL.....

    They didnt make protesters throw bottles at people.

    You dont have the right to throw bottles at the police because they order you to disburse when you are wrong.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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