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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    So, if there are restrictions on protesting, shouldn't there be restrictions on guns?
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    So, if there are restrictions on protesting, shouldn't there be restrictions on guns?
    Dude.... there have been restrictions on guns for a huge amount of time.......

    Crawl out of that rock recently?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Dude.... there have been restrictions on guns for a huge amount of time.......

    Crawl out of that rock recently?
    Yup, restrictions on guns. "Hey, you can't buy this gun", Buyer, "What?", Seller, "Here have this instead", Buyer, "OMG, not the eyes." See the correlation now?
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    So, if there are restrictions on protesting, shouldn't there be restrictions on guns?
    I have the right to own guns, I don't have the right to just pop off a couple of rounds wherever I feel like it. As well as Caine said guns are heavily regulated, there are currently over 10k national regulations alone and over 25 thousand total. You don't have to wait to shout things in the public square, in some places you have to wait seven days or more to purchase a firearm, under 21 year old citizens may not own a handgun, and select fire guns and full autos are license only with full autos after 1986 banned. So excuse us if we don't cry because a handful of lawbreakers inconvenienced people trying to speak because they ****ed around and created a public hazard.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    Yup, restrictions on guns. "Hey, you can't buy this gun", Buyer, "What?", Seller, "Here have this instead", Buyer, "OMG, not the eyes." See the correlation now?
    There is no real correlation there.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    And the thread has been derailed again. Really? gun control?!?!? How does this relate to the eviction of Oakland occupiers?

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    And the thread has been derailed again. Really? gun control?!?!? How does this relate to the eviction of Oakland occupiers?
    I think the poster is trying to make a point that it's hypocritical for gun rights opponents to be against the protest. The logical fallacy though is that it's not that simple, most people I think you will find are against endangerment and legal violations, not the speech itself even though there is severe disagreement. Most gun owners are fine with laws that have a provable affect on safety like not being able to fire in city limits or making sure pyschotics have to pass a sanity test to have that right restored.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I think the poster is trying to make a point that it's hypocritical for gun rights opponents to be against the protest. The logical fallacy though is that it's not that simple, most people I think you will find are against endangerment and legal violations, not the speech itself even though there is severe disagreement. Most gun owners are fine with laws that have a provable affect on safety like not being able to fire in city limits or making sure pyschotics have to pass a sanity test to have that right restored.
    It's just a false analogy... I don't believe the two can be compared side by side. There are completely different concerns involved... But if this is the course of the discussion I am more than willing to abide. Although I believe those that may have once considered me an ally won't anymore.

    Nor do I believe it has any real bearing on the topic of this thread.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    It's just a false analogy... I don't believe the two can be compared side by side. There are completely different concerns involved... But if this is the course of the discussion I am more than willing to abide. Although I believe those that may have once considered me an ally won't anymore.

    Nor do I believe it has any real bearing on the topic of this thread.
    I agree with this. I don't know why people think the gun issue can be substituted in any topic for actual facts of the case. It's just a tactic of throwing out a strawman and hoping someone will shut down for fear of being a hypocrite. It's quite possible to agree with a basic right and understand it has limits.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I agree with this. I don't know why people think the gun issue can be substituted in any topic for actual facts of the case. It's just a tactic of throwing out a strawman and hoping someone will shut down for fear of being a hypocrite. It's quite possible to agree with a basic right and understand it has limits.
    Well, it's not just the gun issue and its not just by people that I tend to side with, politically speaking. can we at least agree that these distractions tend to happen often, and from both sides?

    Why are people so concerned with "winning the argument" as opposed to "figuring out the solution"?

    EDIT: Nevermind... I will start another thread, I just now attempted to start a conversation here that has nothing to do with the thread.... please disregard.... my apologies.
    Last edited by Swit; 11-01-11 at 04:38 AM.

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