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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

  1. #391
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    [QUOTE=Caine;1059917343]To **** with the police.
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Why do you think they grow every time police action occurs? Because more idiots are TRYING to have standoffs with the police.
    Really.... you seriously believe the motivating factor of these people has no end goal in mind except that of messing with the police? Once again this seems like a dishonest argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Police are commonly called Pigs. If you look at some of the links I posted earlier, You see an image taken days before the Police Standoff in Oakland of graffiti of a Pig with an arrow through its head that says "Kill Pigs" on it.
    Agreed that this kind of action should not have any place in civil debate and disrespect to the police force is definitely regrettable, however respect is earned not freely given. A scarier question is why do people have such a negative view of their local police department. They can't all be habitual criminals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    That has nothing to do with Anti-Capitalist movement, and eveything to do with generally hating police.
    Wow, so they are there in your mind for the "Anti-Capitalist" movement thus negating your 1st statement. AND thus defining it as a de facto protest of some kind which would allow for judicial review of 1st Amendment protections.




    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    But, camping on public grounds is a violation of the law. Period. You can't suddenly say that "Oh Im camping in protest" and suddenly have it protected.
    At leat one federal appeals court would disagree with you as they are hearing the case re: Occupy Cleveland right now and have file a temporary injunction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Can you go piss on public buildings in protest and it be protected?
    I guess if you can somehow convince a court that it is constitutionally protected speech then it would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Smoke marijuana in protest? Protected...
    I guess if you can somehow convince a court that it is constitutionally protected speech then it would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Your logic is ignorant.
    I'm not the one making the logical leaps, you are. You are the one claiming that these things would be protected, not I. So please take credit for them. I never have suggested that pissing on buildings or smoking marijuana would somehow then fall under the purview of the 1st amendment should the occupiers be allowed to stay. These are YOUR assertions. Never once had I ever said anything like this nor do I hold the view that they would be protected.
    Last edited by Swit; 10-30-11 at 06:46 PM.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Thats fine....

    Then put your big boy pants on, and accept that if you violate a law as a form of protest you are still subject to arrest.

    If you get violent towards those who have been sent to arrest you for violating a law, then expect to be met with force....
    K, so how come they only arrested 70 out of 300 or how ever many their were? Why subject EVERYONE to tear gas and flash bang granades?
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Do people understand that sometimes descent is sometimes needed? Descent is patriotic. Its needed in democracy. Its needed for a democracy to work. This is real democracy right now. Descent is the highest form of patriotism.
    Couple of things, descent is absolutely necessary if you want to land a plane or get off of a high elevation. Dissent is sometimes necessary in a free society, but not just because you personally don't like the way things are, dissent because the government has encroached your rights is patriotic, not because you want people to pay more taxes or you have problems with the way the country was founded. In short your dissent should have real merit and not just be a bunch of pissing and moaning. This is indeed democracy, well, democracy among the small percentage of people in the protests within that group, most of the U.S. thinks these clowns are full of ****. Finally, the United States is NOT a democracy, we are a democratic republic and this was done so that if the public got too greedy or stupid they couldn't mess the whole thing up by tipping the scales in a manner that the damage couldn't be repaired. Somehow the politicians have figured out a way to **** things up anyway and these protesters want more stupid moves......tsk tsk.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    [QUOTE=Swit;1059917399]
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    To **** with the police.

    Really.... you seriously believe the motivating factor of these people has no end goal in mind except that of messing with the police? Once again this seems like a dishonest argument.


    Agreed that this kind of action should not have any place in civil debate and disrespect to the police force is definitely regrettable, however respect is earned not freely given. A scarier question is why do people have such a negative view of their local police department. They can't all be habitual criminals.


    Wow, so they are there in your mind for the "Anti-Capitalist" movement thus negating your 1st statement. AND thus defining it as a de facto protest of some kind which would allow for judicial review of 1st Amendment protections.





    At leat one federal appeals court would disagree with you as they are hearing the case re: Occupy Cleveland right now and have file a temporary injunction.


    I guess if you can somehow convince a court that it is constitutionally protected speech then it would be.


    I guess if you can somehow convince a court that it is constitutionally protected speech then it would be.



    I'm not the one making the logical leaps, you are. You are the one claiming that these things would be protected, not I. So please take credit for them. I never have suggested that pissing on buildings or smoking marijuana would somehow then fall under the purview of the 1st amendment should the occupiers be allowed to stay. These are YOUR assertions. Never once had I ever said anything like this nor do I hold the view that they would be protected.
    Then the police still have the right to enforce the current laws, and the COURTS can then decide ... IN COURT whether or not those laws should be ALLOWED to be violated under some faux representation of their right to assembly and protest.

    Just STATING as an individual that "this is my right maaaan" isn't and shouldn't prevent the police from enforcing the law anyways.


    And here is some more eye candy for you courtesy of Oakland...



    Take note of the big ass wooden "game" that had to take quite a while to create...
    This photo was taken after the EARLY MORNING police raid (dark hours).
    Which means this was created long before the police stepped in to evict the protesters.

    Which means that there was already anti-police sentiment among those in the protest group............
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I know, trust me is just an emphasis not an appeal. The reason anti-camping laws exist is to prevent squatting which is a real problem in most medium to large cities. Squatting results in many public health threats such as communal disease sharing, public safety violations, fire hazards, fighting, and other crimes. I don't have the studies or statistics on hand but from my understanding these are all well known and accepted truths. I know that if I had property near a tent city that could be endangered I couldn't give a good **** what rights those endangering my property think they have. Not trying to be rude BTW just stating things in a strong manner.
    Ahhh now we are finally getting to the crux of this entire thread..... there are many people out there that don't believe these people has a right to be there.... there are also those out there that believe the do. Shouldn't this be a situation for judicial review as opposed individual opinion.

  6. #396
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    K, so how come they only arrested 70 out of 300 or how ever many their were? Why subject EVERYONE to tear gas and flash bang granades?
    Contrary to popular belief.....

    NO authority can completely control chaos... to include capturing every single individual involved in a mass riot.....



    Your problem is you immediatley assume EVERYTHING is in the control of the police.


    This **** happens all the time across the country, police respond to a call and find out there are MANY more people than they can physically handle, the crowd disburses and what crimes those who ran off committed get ignored...

    Haven't you been to a big underage drinking party?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  7. #397
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Ahhh now we are finally getting to the crux of this entire thread..... there are many people out there that don't believe these people has a right to be there.... there are also those out there that believe the do. Shouldn't this be a situation for judicial review as opposed individual opinion.
    Of course it should be under judicial review, but if we're being honest these protesters are endangering other people, violating other's rights in some cases, and otherwise stepping outside of their own individual rights because they think they can. I have no sympathy for these jackasses and it's pretty obvious they are in the wrong.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    [QUOTE=Caine;1059917417]
    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post

    Then the police still have the right to enforce the current laws, and the COURTS can then decide ... IN COURT whether or not those laws should be ALLOWED to be violated under some faux representation of their right to assembly and protest.

    Just STATING as an individual that "this is my right maaaan" isn't and shouldn't prevent the police from enforcing the law anyways.


    And here is some more eye candy for you courtesy of Oakland...



    Take note of the big ass wooden "game" that had to take quite a while to create...
    This photo was taken after the EARLY MORNING police raid (dark hours).
    Which means this was created long before the police stepped in to evict the protesters.

    Which means that there was already anti-police sentiment among those in the protest group............
    Funny, it doesn't look like any rocks were tossed at it.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post

    Funny, it doesn't look like any rocks were tossed at it.
    Wow... Another example of

    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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