Page 39 of 57 FirstFirst ... 29373839404149 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 390 of 562

Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

  1. #381
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    So local camping ordinances trump constitutional protections then?
    Once you start to break laws you have stepped out of the scope of your rights. That is not black and white of course but when laws have provable necessity and trust me anti-camping laws do, then yes they do trump the right to free speech and assembly. Other examples are sanitation, you may not incite a riot, obstruction, fighting words, obscenity, lewd behavior, and advocating or engaging in criminal activity.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  2. #382
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,460
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yes, they should.

    But when violence comes from an assembly of angry people shouting obscenities at you, and it is impossible to determine who the many assailants are..... THAT constitutes an unlawful assembly... and then people are legally ordered to disburse. Failure to do so will result in MAKING them disburse. Which is what happened here.

    The injury was an accidental result of an attempt to control Chaos.


    Even if police WERE able to exactly pinpoint the many assailants, do you think it is wise from a standpoint of safety for officers to to INTO an angry crowd to attempt to arrest someone???


    If only police were such wizards that they could shoot a lazer beam at a specific target in a giant crowd and that lazer beam them grabs them and lifts them up above the rest and then brings that person to them for arresting purposes.....

    If only....

    Reality is... You participate in an angry mob and refuse to leave.... You take the responsibility for what happens to you in your own hands.
    Maybe some kind of paintball would work?

    I get where you are coming from, but you just provided whoever disagrees with any protest movement the perfect means to silence it:

    Hire people to yell obscenitites and chuck **** at cops from the crowd.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  3. #383
    Advisor Swit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-13-16 @ 12:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    390

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Camping is NOT pettitioning the government.
    So you seem to be claiming that these occupy X groups are in fact not protesting what exactly is your interpretation of their continued presence then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You can't do ANYTHING you want and call it assembly and protest and be protected.
    Absolutely correct, reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on 1st amendment issues have been taken up in the courts on virtually limitless occasion. Its up to the courts to decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If so, You have no problem with me keying your car right?
    Well, if you get a court to agree that "keying a car" is not subject to reasonable time place and manner restrictions and some how falls under the purview of the 1st amendment protections then, no I would not be able to argue against it.

  4. #384
    Advisor Swit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-13-16 @ 12:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    390

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Once you start to break laws you have stepped out of the scope of your rights. That is not black and white of course but when laws have provable necessity and trust me anti-camping laws do, then yes they do trump the right to free speech and assembly. Other examples are sanitation, you may not incite a riot, obstruction, fighting words, obscenity, lewd behavior, and advocating or engaging in criminal activity.
    I am sorry but "trust me" doesn't hold any weight with me. And the only way to determine if the trump 1st Amendment protections is to argue it in court. (And currently federal court is looking into this issue with regard to Occupy Cleveland and they have in fact ordered a temporary injunction upon the city of Cleveland restraining the city from taking restrictive action upon the protesters)

  5. #385
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    So you seem to be claiming that these occupy X groups are in fact not protesting what exactly is your interpretation of their continued presence then?
    To **** with the police.
    Why do you think they grow every time police action occurs? Because more idiots are TRYING to have standoffs with the police.

    Police are commonly called Pigs. If you look at some of the links I posted earlier, You see an image taken days before the Police Standoff in Oakland of graffiti of a Pig with an arrow through its head that says "Kill Pigs" on it.

    That has nothing to do with Anti-Capitalist movement, and eveything to do with generally hating police.




    Absolutely correct, reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on 1st amendment issues have been taken up in the courts on virtually limitless occasion. Its up to the courts to decide.
    But, camping on public grounds is a violation of the law. Period. You can't suddenly say that "Oh Im camping in protest" and suddenly have it protected.

    Can you go piss on public buildings in protest and it be protected?

    Smoke marijuana in protest? Protected...

    Your logic is ignorant.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #386
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,460
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You are just....

    Sorry man. I haven't been disrespectful of you at all, and I think the burden is on you to support yoir claims of lawlessness.

    I simply don't believe that finding actual, official reporting on this stuff should be this difficult. I'm not making any claims that nothing of moment, even rape, has occurred. What I AM claiming is that there is a TON of noise in the conservative blogosphere aboit the horrors at OWS protests that are all based on hearsay if that.

    Where are the official police statements to the media? Where are the media statements from named sources? Where are the followup articles from media outlets?

    I'm still getting caught up on these threads, and will modify this statement as evidence manafests, if it does.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #387
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    I am sorry but "trust me" doesn't hold any weight with me. And the only way to determine if the trump 1st Amendment protections is to argue it in court. (And currently federal court is looking into this issue with regard to Occupy Cleveland and they have in fact ordered a temporary injunction upon the city of Cleveland restraining the city from taking restrictive action upon the protesters)
    I know, trust me is just an emphasis not an appeal. The reason anti-camping laws exist is to prevent squatting which is a real problem in most medium to large cities. Squatting results in many public health threats such as communal disease sharing, public safety violations, fire hazards, fighting, and other crimes. I don't have the studies or statistics on hand but from my understanding these are all well known and accepted truths. I know that if I had property near a tent city that could be endangered I couldn't give a good **** what rights those endangering my property think they have. Not trying to be rude BTW just stating things in a strong manner.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  8. #388
    Gradualist

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    09-25-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    34,949
    Blog Entries
    6

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Do people understand that sometimes descent is sometimes needed? Descent is patriotic. Its needed in democracy. Its needed for a democracy to work. This is real democracy right now. Descent is the highest form of patriotism.


  9. #389
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Sorry man. I haven't been disrespectful of you at all, and I think the burden is on you to support yoir claims of lawlessness.

    I simply don't believe that finding actual, official reporting on this stuff should be this difficult. I'm not making any claims that nothing of moment, even rape, has occurred. What I AM claiming is that there is a TON of noise in the conservative blogosphere aboit the horrors at OWS protests that are all based on hearsay if that.

    Where are the official police statements to the media? Where are the media statements from named sources? Where are the followup articles from media outlets?

    I'm still getting caught up on these threads, and will modify this statement as evidence manafests, if it does.
    NOTHING will prove to YOU that the police were refused access to the camp by the camp members to conduct their investigations.

    That in itself is enough to take the thing down.

    Umm......

    The Bay Citizen isn't a blog.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  10. #390
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Do people understand that sometimes descent is sometimes needed? Descent is patriotic. Its needed in democracy. Its needed for a democracy to work. This is real democracy right now. Descent is the highest form of patriotism.
    Thats fine....

    Then put your big boy pants on, and accept that if you violate a law as a form of protest you are still subject to arrest.

    If you get violent towards those who have been sent to arrest you for violating a law, then expect to be met with force....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

Page 39 of 57 FirstFirst ... 29373839404149 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •