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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

  1. #351
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is not true. You- as a police officer - have an identified victim and you have specific evidence of a crime. That is more than what you have in your Oakland stories.
    I don't work for the Oakland Police Department, nor the local news outlet. Its not my job to force the police to force an unrequested document onto the media to convince the unconvinceable people like yourself. Its not the police departments job to release all the reports they receive in order to try to convince the unconvineable people like yourself.

    And do you clear out an entire community of people because of a crime report? Do you empty a 500 room hotel because somebody did something suspected to be illegal in a room or two? Do you empty a subdivision of people because somebody had a wild party or a runner peed in somebody's back yard? I understand that you will see a difference in a persons right to be in a hotel room or a subdivision as opposed to being in a park - and I do too - however, before we begin to go down the road involving violence with hundreds of citizens and police officers, there needs to be a serious and actual reason for it.
    There were MANY reasons for it. Your acting like a defense attorney who attacks each point of evidence as something independent and not taking the whole picture into account. There were multiple reports, in addition to fire hazards, public health hazards..... and the REFUSAL TO ALLOW POLICE, FIRE, AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL TO ENTER TO DO THEIR JOB. Funny nobody has been bothering to address that part.

    If you can demonstrate a serious danger to the safety of the public, I am more than willing to entertain a need for action upon that danger.
    Nothing anyone suggests will be enough to convince you, that much is obvious.





    We would have to look at it when the situation arose and make a proper evaluation of the entire situation and weigh the possible negative effects of taking confrontational and possibly violent action.
    Maybe these "peaceful" "non-violent" protesters should think about obeying the law.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #352
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post

    This nationwide "movement" is becoming woodstock for sexual predators......


    Zones of "Lawlessness" ....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    They were breaking the law, making a huge mess, and provoked the police.
    The protestors should feel lucky. If the ROKMC were the police there, the Occupy-something movement would have ended the next hour
    (emphasis added by me)
    That not necessarily true. Only the courts can determine whether to uphold reasonable, time, place and manner restrictions. NOT local government officials, NOT local law enforcement, Not private citizens. There would have been no confrontation should the police taken no action against the occupiers, to ignore this simple cause and effect relationship is mind-boggling.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    I'm curious - to those who think what the police did was wrong from the get-go....what should the police have done with a large crowd of people throwing things at them?
    People were not throwing things at the police until they were evicted from the park and later regrouped near the area. Youn are putting the cart before the horse by claiming that people were throwing things at the police before ANY police action occurred.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    1. They refused to leave.
    2. They started throwing things at the police.
    This is not accurate....

    1. they were forcably removed by police
    2. they regrouped after the eviction
    3. police ordered them to disperse
    3. they started throwing things at the police

    if 1. never occurred it is likely none of the actions subsequent to 1. would have occurred.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Possible. From what the story would lead one to believe is an outside perpetrator, or at the very least one rousted out and banished by the group. Would you care to advance an argument as to how this is an indictment of the protests?

    Or, in your view, is it a preponderance of 'possible' things that allow for general condemnation?

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    (emphasis added by me)
    That not necessarily true. Only the courts can determine whether to uphold reasonable, time, place and manner restrictions. NOT local government officials, NOT local law enforcement, Not private citizens. There would have been no confrontation should the police taken no action against the occupiers, to ignore this simple cause and effect relationship is mind-boggling.
    Laws against Camping have nothing to do with time place and manner restrictions.

    They are laws against camping........

    To consistently ignore this, is mind boggling.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yes but the contention that I was battling was a suggestion from another poster that medical personnel who were on scene (staged) to treat injured were prevented from helping. In order to be prevented from helping you have to be trying.

    A. All those people who went up to him eventually did get back up to him and pick him up and walk him away from there... as evidenced in another video.
    B. In that video... the group of people carrying him are screaming MEDIC! MEDIC! which they wouldnt be doing if they were in fact medics..
    While I don't think you have any evidence to support any claim you just made... How about answering 2 questions for me:

    1. Why did the police not help the injured individual in question?
    2. Is it acceptable to set off a concussion grenade near an injured citizen?

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    This is not accurate....

    1. they were forcably removed by police
    2. they regrouped after the eviction
    3. police ordered them to disperse
    3. they started throwing things at the police

    if 1. never occurred it is likely none of the actions subsequent to 1. would have occurred.
    So, essentially you are blaming the police for the independent actions of a bunch of anarchist thugs that thought they owned the park?

    They made the decision to try to re-take the park.

    What happened to them when they refused to disburse is on them.



    You support invasions and lawlessness apparently.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Why don't you ask Ikari those questions..... It is his contention that Camping should be allowed if it is in the name of "assembly and free speech". From all that I can tell, there should be nothing stopping the Occupiers from rolling out a sleeping bag in the Mayors office.
    Because I was responding to your post not Ikari's


    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Im not a fan of the camping.
    Protest, then go sleep somewhere like a normal person, then come back and protest again... Im all good with that.

    But camping out creates lots of problems.
    Great.... and by your own logic, at least one way to ensure this doesn't happen anymore is to continue to allow them to camp there.

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