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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

  1. #341
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Where is this list of crimes being committed that were a serious endangerment to public safety that warranted such a response?

    Where is this evidence beyond mere vague undocumented "reports"?

    Before I would support such strong police actions being taken against Americans exercising their rights, I would have to see something very tangible and much more than these vague "reports" of crimes without named victims or named perpetrators or anything that is real and can be documented as an actual public safety crisis.
    The next time I take a rape report, I'll be sure to let the victim know to go **** herself because all I have is this vague undocumented "report"....



    Rape victims, or all victims really, have the right to keep their names off of the public record of the report for privacy reasons.



    Your just grasping for reasons to support the protesters and ignore the public safety hazard that the occupation presented.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #342
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine, replying to Karl View Post
    When police receive reports... then that means the report didn't originate from them... [...]
    When police allegedly receive reports. Where are these alleged reports? And who filed these alleged reports?

    The claim of reports did indeed originate from the police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Basically, this is what happens when you give people their space and create a "lawless" zone for these protesters...
    Basically, when you resist authority and the entrenched political establishment, even at a minor civil disobedience level, you get your head cracked.


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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine, replying to another View Post
    The next time I take a rape report, I'll be sure to let the victim know to go **** herself because all I have is this vague undocumented "report".... Rape victims, or all victims really, have the right to keep their names off of the public record of the report for privacy reasons. Your just grasping for reasons to support the protesters and ignore the public safety hazard that the occupation presented.
    Fine. Redact the name, show us the report. Date, time, and location happened. Description of attacker. Prove that the report even exists. And then assure us that the alleged victim is a member of the protest group, or an innocent bystander -- rather than a police informant or agent provocateur. Otherwise you're grasping.

    You've shown zero evidence of any "public safety hazard", with the possible exception of public defecation which, if true, may well be the result of the authorities refusing to allow portable sanitation facilities to be located. I will note, however, that going by the standards shown in your post we need to immediately close all state and national parks -- obviously overnight camping is a public safety hazard

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    [...] where is the line between protest and riot?
    1. When only the citizens need medical attention, it's a protest.

    2. When the police need medical attention, it's a riot... which could also be evidenced by widespread destruction of property (sans any police involvement).

    I'd welcome any proof of the second item above (again, police statements -- such as some cop falling off his motorcycle -- are not proof. Nor is the odd broken window or tagged police car sufficient proof).

    That's the real world definition (mine). Anything else you need cleared up?

    riot: a disturbance of the peace created by an assemblage of usually three or more people acting with a common purpose and in a violent and tumultuous manner to the terror of the public.

    riot. Dictionary.com. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law. Merriam-Webster, Inc. Riot | Define Riot at Dictionary.com (accessed: October 30, 2011).

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    There will always be blurred lines between rights of protesters and the rest of us. This is nothing new. What if protesters decided to erect a tent city on my front lawn? Should that be allowed? What if protesters decided to erect tent cities in forest preserves (public parks in Illinois)? Do we let them? Or do we enforce closing times? Do we exhaust public resources trying to protect them? What if protesters decided to erect tent cities in WalMart parking lots? What if?? Where's the line?

    Protesters should never be allowed to erect tent cities on any publicly-owned property unless camping is allowed. Protesters should never be allowed to erect tent cities on private property without the written consent of the owner.

    "Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins."
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    The next time I take a rape report, I'll be sure to let the victim know to go **** herself because all I have is this vague undocumented "report"....



    Rape victims, or all victims really, have the right to keep their names off of the public record of the report for privacy reasons.



    Your just grasping for reasons to support the protesters and ignore the public safety hazard that the occupation presented.
    That is not true. You- as a police officer - have an identified victim and you have specific evidence of a crime. That is more than what you have in your Oakland stories.

    And do you clear out an entire community of people because of a crime report? Do you empty a 500 room hotel because somebody did something suspected to be illegal in a room or two? Do you empty a subdivision of people because somebody had a wild party or a runner peed in somebody's back yard? I understand that you will see a difference in a persons right to be in a hotel room or a subdivision as opposed to being in a park - and I do too - however, before we begin to go down the road involving violence with hundreds of citizens and police officers, there needs to be a serious and actual reason for it.

    If you can demonstrate a serious danger to the safety of the public, I am more than willing to entertain a need for action upon that danger.

    from Maggie

    There will always be blurred lines between rights of protesters and the rest of us.
    That is very true. And since those lines are admittedly blurry, we better be darn sure before we go using force upon people.



    This is nothing new. What if protesters decided to erect a tent city on my front lawn? Should that be allowed?
    Nope. However, I do see a difference in the private residential property of a citizen like yourself and a city park.


    What if protesters decided to erect tent cities in forest preserves (public parks in Illinois)? Do we let them? Or do we enforce closing times? Do we exhaust public resources trying to protect them? What if protesters decided to erect tent cities in WalMart parking lots? What if?? Where's the line?
    We would have to look at it when the situation arose and make a proper evaluation of the entire situation and weigh the possible negative effects of taking confrontational and possibly violent action.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-30-11 at 11:31 AM.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    There will always be blurred lines between rights of protesters and the rest of us. This is nothing new. What if protesters decided to erect a tent city on my front lawn? Should that be allowed?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    What if protesters decided to erect tent cities in forest preserves (public parks in Illinois)? Do we let them?
    Or do we enforce closing times?
    Depends.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Do we exhaust public resources trying to protect them?
    Using public resources to pay police overtime to brutalize them does not qualify as "protecting them".

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    What if protesters decided to erect tent cities in WalMart parking lots? What if??
    What if a frog had wings? He wouldn't bump his ass when he jumps. Please -- argument, not hypotheticals.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Protesters should never be allowed to erect tent cities on private property without the written consent of the owner.
    If you provide evidence of that happening, we can discuss it. Again -- please -- argument, not hypotheticals.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    "Your right to swing your arms ends where my nose begins."
    Source your quote. At lease one fact per post would be nice...

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades



  9. #349
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You can have 9, you still live on your mommy's credit card.

    Surprisingly i dont live on my "mommy's credit card."
    Im glad you know me so well


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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Fine. Redact the name, show us the report. Date, time, and location happened. Description of attacker. Prove that the report even exists. And then assure us that the alleged victim is a member of the protest group, or an innocent bystander -- rather than a police informant or agent provocateur. Otherwise you're grasping.

    You've shown zero evidence of any "public safety hazard", with the possible exception of public defecation which, if true, may well be the result of the authorities refusing to allow portable sanitation facilities to be located. I will note, however, that going by the standards shown in your post we need to immediately close all state and national parks -- obviously overnight camping is a public safety hazard
    You mean the media showed no evidence of these reports? Its not the police department's job to FORCE copies of this reports on the journalist who didn't want or ask for it when they wrote their article on the issue. Police don't force reports on journalists, the journalist requests it... its on the JOURNALIST to get a copy of the report to support their article if they think it is necessary. Chances are, they didn't go that far with it because..... you wouldn't be convinced even with that.

    You have no evidence of any "agent" conspiracy theory you have come up with.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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