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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    If you actually bother to READ the full length of the articles, you can see a myriad of reasons why police needed to step in to deal with Occupy Oakland.......

    The Mayor should have not told the city fire and police officials to give Occupy Oakland their space in the first place......when considering all the crimes that were being reported but the police hands were tied.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Urrr.. *Grunt* Protest GOOD

    Urrr.. *Grunt* Camping BAAAAD
    I am so shocked you defend police brutality in this thread. Not...
    ~Following My Own Flow~

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    I am so shocked you defend police brutality in this thread. Not...
    What makes it "brutal" in your view?

    and where is the line between protest and riot?
    Last edited by mac; 10-29-11 at 11:08 PM.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If you actually bother to READ the full length of the articles, you can see a myriad of reasons why police needed to step in to deal with Occupy Oakland....... [...]
    I read your three links. I saw perhaps one reason, substantiated by no evidence, and I saw no reasons at all that did not emanate from the police. In fact, I saw nothing at all except unsubstantiated claims by the authorities... however, if one is a fan of totalitarianism, or indoctrinated by it, then I suppose demands by the police are all that is needed.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I read your three links. I saw perhaps one reason, substantiated by no evidence, and I saw no reasons at all that did not emanate from the police. In fact, I saw nothing at all except unsubstantiated claims by the authorities... however, if one is a fan of totalitarianism, or indoctrinated by it, then I suppose demands by the police are all that is needed.
    The notice to vacate, issued by the Oakland city administrator's office, said, "While demonstrators have a right to peaceful expression, the city has a responsibility to ensure a public health and safety plan during such events," and "after 10 days, the city can no longer uphold public health and safety."

    City officials said in recent days, camp conditions and occupant behavior have significantly deteriorated, citing fire hazards, increasing violence and threats, the denial of emergency personnel access to treat injured people and public urination and defecation, among other problems.
    The news release stated that within a week of when the Occupy Oakland camp materialized, the city began receiving reports of fire hazards, sanitation problems, noise and unsafe structures being set up in the plaza.

    By the second week, firefighters, police and paramedics were denied access to the camp and the city received a report that someone had been severely beaten, according to city officials.

    "Sanitation conditions worsened, with frequent instances of public urination and defecation, as well as improper food storage," the news release stated.

    An existing rat problem in the plaza grew worse, and reports of public intoxication, fighting and sexual offenses increased, according to the city.

    The city sent an eviction notice to protesters at Frank Ogawa Plaza last week, but most stayed put.

    When police receive reports... then that means the report didn't originate from them...

    And the bolded/emphasized portion above should have been enough reason alone to move in..........The only reason police didn't demand access to investigate is because the Mayor had originally told them not to, basically the Mayor told them to ignore acts of resisting an officer's investigation in the name of their right to assembly... The mayor finally decided not to do so as evidenced in the 2nd article.

    Basically, this is what happens when you give people their space and create a "lawless" zone for these protesters...
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Thank you for those articles Caine. I read them. I cannot help but notice that the City officials fall back on the reason of "public safety" and throw out the image of people taking care of their bathroom needs in public as a reason to go in and break up this encampment. They talk about public safety but I saw little or no actual documentation of any serious lack of public safety.

    America has a history of this type of citizen action from the Hoovervilles that dotted the American map in the early Thirties, the Bonus Army of over 40,000 military veterans and their families that came to Washington DC to ask for their war bonus under Hoover in the Spring and Summer of 1932, the Poor Peoples Resurrection City tent city during the later part of the Civil rights years in 1968, and others. Public safety and improper bathroom use seems to be the ever present excuse.

    The fact is that these things are going on in cities all over America and where has public safety been the real significant issue? Sure, one can make the case that its messy and maybe even ugly and its not something the city fthers want to include in a tourism video to entice middle class people with their dollars to come and spend on their next vacation, but its democracy and rights in action. We have to balance that.

    Once these camps get established, I would think the city administration would carefully weigh the actions they may take taking into consideration that things like Oakland may very well happen and that sort of thing is a whole lot worse than the actual encampment. What is worse..... somebody peeing on a bush or the type of violence that we saw in Oakland?
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-30-11 at 08:30 AM.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you for those articles Caine. I read them. I cannot help but notice that the City officials fall back on the reason of "public safety" and throw out the image of people taking care of their bathroom needs in public as a reason to go in and break up this encampment. They talk about public safety but I saw little or no actual documentation of any serious lack of public safety.
    Police receiving reports of sexual assaults, fights.... none of those words you MUST have read (if you read it all right?) including the little part I put in HUGE letters 2 posts ago means anything to you? A "law free zone" in the name of "peaceful assembly" is okay with you?


    America has a history of this type of citizen action from the Hoovervilles that dotted the American map in the early Thirties, the Bonus Army of over 40,000 military veterans and their families that came to Washington DC to ask for their war bonus under Hoover in the Spring and Summer of 1932, the Poor Peoples Resurrection City tent city during the later part of the Civil rights years in 1968, and others. Public safety and improper bathroom use seems to be the ever present excuse.
    So when people decide to have these "assemblies" and someone gets raped and tries to report it to the local police, what should be the police response? "Too bad, you entered the lawless zone, nothing we can do for you." These jack asses refused to allow police access to the encampment, as well as paramedics and firefighters.... That in itself is enough reason to tear down the ****ing tent city.



    The fact is that these things are going on in cities all over America and where has public safety been the real significant issue? Sure, one can make the case that its messy and maybe even ugly and its not something the city fthers want to include in a tourism video to entice middle class people with their dollars to come and spend on their next vacation, but its democracy and rights in action. We have to balance that.
    Sure.. tell you what. We'll create this lawless zone, and refuse to investigate and/or prosecute any crimes that occur within if they refuse to accept that camping is not allowed. No city services will be wasted on them either.... trash collection, no. Sanitation, no. Get a fire? Put it out yourself. Someone gets sick from camping out in the snowy cold, too ****ing bad suck it up.....

    How does that sound?


    Once these camps get established, I would think the city administration would carefully weigh the actions they may take taking into consideration that things like Oakland may very well happen and that sort of thing is a whole lot worse than the actual encampment. What is worse..... somebody peeing on a bush or the type of violence that we saw in Oakland?
    The type of **** that comes with a lawless zone like that idiot Mayor in Oakland allowed to be created when she told her Fire and Police personnel to stand clear of the protesters....... she allowed things to spiral downhill until she HAD to do something about it.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Oh I read it all right. I just saw no evidence that there were actual real problems aside from vague reports which may or may not be true, my or may not be exaggerated, may or may not be isolated incidents.

    You hang your hat on these "lawless zones" but where is the definitive evidence of such "lawlessness" existing in reality?
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-30-11 at 08:46 AM.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Oh I read it all right. I just saw no evidence that there were actual real problems aside from vague reports which may or may not be true, my or may not be exaggerated, may or may not be isolated incidents.
    Then you aren't using all evidence available and drawing a objective conclusion.

    You are taking up a side, and then looking to find a reason not to believe anything that contradicts your view you already took.

    I knew I wasted my time bothering with trying to find you information you and others just cast off as "no evidence".

    Do you think that media outlets are going to bother getting direct links to copies of all the public copies of incidents reported to police that are documented and investigated just to convince you that these reports are real? No.


    But okay, next time I read an article that accuses police of doing something "as told by one protester" I'll cast it aside as "no evidence".
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Where is this list of crimes being committed that were a serious endangerment to public safety that warranted such a response?

    Where is this evidence beyond mere vague undocumented "reports"?

    Before I would support such strong police actions being taken against Americans exercising their rights, I would have to see something very tangible and much more than these vague "reports" of crimes without named victims or named perpetrators or anything that is real and can be documented as an actual public safety crisis.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-30-11 at 09:01 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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