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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    C. Contrary to what I was told.... None of those people who began running up to the injured guy looked like Medics to me..... HMM?
    Agree with the majority of your post Cain but someone with your experience as a Police Officer should know better than to say something like this. You've never arrived on the scene and an out of uniform Medic has already administered assistance to someone? Since when do Medics only attend to injured person (s) if they have their uniform on?

    I've helped people whilst off duty. It's automatic. If you come across someone injured you don't ignore it because you are out of uniform.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    This video clearly shows this and police brutality Occupy Oakland - Flashbangs USED on protesters OPD LIES - YouTube
    Throwing flashbangs at people trying to assist an injured person is absolutely disgusting. There is no excuse for that.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Agree with the majority of your post Cain but someone with your experience as a Police Officer should know better than to say something like this. You've never arrived on the scene and an out of uniform Medic has already administered assistance to someone? Since when do Medics only attend to injured person (s) if they have their uniform on?

    I've helped people whilst off duty. It's automatic. If you come across someone injured you don't ignore it because you are out of uniform.
    Interesting how the uniformed cops in this video don't act this way.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Throwing flashbangs at people trying to assist an injured person is absolutely disgusting. There is no excuse for that.
    Yet there are people on posting on this very thread saying that police were justified in doing so somehow... I don't get it.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Without reasonable restrictions to public park access.... this is what we will have...

    The government wont be able to keep campers off their property..... the rest of the public wont be able to USE the facilities the way they were intended....... the government wont be able to keep up with the maintenance on said property...... the Parks and Recreation Departments wont be able to maintain their budget....... the Public Parks will have to be sold to private entities.... we will no longer have public parks........and our freedom expressers will have WHERE to go at that point to freeload and camp out?

    How do you like my slippery slope?
    What slippery slope... all I see are
    A false premise (that camping would somehow become a de facto Constitutional Right as a result of allowing occupiers to protest there)
    A false analogy - How on earth do you try to compare an enumerated Constitutionally protected Right to camping.
    A couple of extremely narrowly constructed logical leaps that assume once a problem has arisen there can be no solution but failure, and a whole lot more "the sky is falling" illogical assumptions as opposed to progressions.

    and to quote you, who appears to be a staunch supporter not allowing this type of behavior:
    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    ...and our freedom expressers will have WHERE to go at that point to freeload and camp out?
    According to your parallel universe of absolutes and polar thinking..... Exactly where you want to be. with people NOT having the ability do engage in this type of behavior..... So how does this help your case? Sounds to me like you just came up with the solution.... and according to your own logic..... it appears to be to let them continue do it.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Excessive force and police brutality = BAD!!

    The right to protest = Good and a RIGHT!!
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Yet there are people on posting on this very thread saying that police were justified in doing so somehow... I don't get it.
    It is cause some of the folks in this thread are down with the police.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Yet there are people on posting on this very thread saying that police were justified in doing so somehow... I don't get it.
    It is easy enough to understand. Some of the people who express the most hostility towards demonstrators and the most support for the police action are motivated by their own ideological and political bias. Some, from time to time, pretend that they actually care about such vague concepts as LIBERTY and FREEDOM but they only trot out those tired cliches when it is to the advantage of their side. In reality, they are warriors of the right wing and are only happy to attempt to crush anyone on the left that is viewed through their extreme ideological perspective as the enemy.
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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    Yet there are people on posting on this very thread saying that police were justified in doing so somehow... I don't get it.
    well, I don't feel it to be justified myself... but then again, that's just a personal opinion and not a legal one.

    police brutality has been a problem since the very first cop started walking a beat.

    the police are the pointy spear of government force....they are not brutal in 90% of their interactions with the public, but they are sanctioned to use force, by law, in cases where citizens do not comply with lawful orders.... that's just the basic facts.


    it's not the force by the police that I worry about people not getting... it worries me that a lot of people think it's justified to break the law when it's politically convenient to do so.
    none of our rights extend into the realm of lawlessness... and that's something I see OWS supporters being a bit confused by.

    for instance, i'm exercising my rights by carrying a handgun... but i can't say that my right to bear keep and bear arms is a justification for unlawfully using that weapon.
    if I start waving my gun around at a school, and the police tell me to stop.. and I refuse.. i can't really be whining about the cops beating my ass or shooting me... my right did not extent that far and the cops would be justified ( by their very mission) in utilizing force.

    protesting is surely a right... a very important right.... but there are reasonable limits to that right pertaining to time/place/and manner.
    it's ok to believe that time place and manner do not count... but one would be wise to understand that their beliefs are not accurate.... and the police will show them just how inaccurate their beliefs are.

    when you engage in civil disobedience ( which is nothing more or less than non-violent lawbreaking) expect the people who are in charge of enforcing laws to actually enforce the laws... do not be surprised by them doing so.... and if you refuse to comply with them, don't be surprised when they resort to physical force.


    so yeah, if the police were enforcing actual laws, and these protestors were not complying with lawful orders... the cops are justified in using force...those are just basic legal facts.

    it's understandable for folks to think that their pet movements should be given special treatment .. it's even understandable when they think they should be allowed to break the law.. and it's understandable to believe the laws they are breaking are stupid or whathaveyou.... but being understandable doesn't change the nature of reality.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    They were breaking the law, making a huge mess, and provoked the police.
    The protestors should feel lucky. If the ROKMC were the police there, the Occupy-something movement would have ended the next hour
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