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Thread: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I'll stick with RECKLESS DISREGARD.
    Reckless Disregard doesn't explain the implications in the language from the posts I pointed out.

    Saying you cracked people's skulls open to get them to disperse shows that the act of cracking a skull open was intentional, and had a desired outcome.


    Typical Protester (and/or sympathizer) Dishonesty..........
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yup, you continue to confirm it. If fascism ever comes to the USA, I strongly suspect right wing libertarians will be leading the parade.
    And what is the lean in the city of Oakland, the great state of California?

    You LOVE order...just so long as it suits your purposes. Right mr union guy?

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    This doesn't seem to be a factual statement there are numerous posts by yourself that are in fact trying to educate people what the 'correct' interpretations of rights are... in this particular thread those of the 1st amendment....

    And second, the US code, the body of law that our legislature has passed, must first pass constitutional muster... i.e. the meat and potatoes of the U.S. Constitution is the U.S. Constitution itself.... not its derivative products.
    Well...since those codes and laws have been on the books...Im guessing they HAVE. Or do you know something we dont know? Oh...wait...wait...you are just speculating they ARENT constitutional cuz you dont like them. You can read them yourself (I almost said 'believe me' but realize...thats silly)...every federal code and law is vetted. At the end of the day...the police are there to do what they are told by the government leaders. Peaceful protestors (like we keep being told they are) should follow the rules and directions given by said officers. Or DONT. Fight the power. Just dont be shocked when someone tackes a tactical round to the forehead.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Well...since those codes and laws have been on the books...Im guessing they HAVE. Or do you know something we dont know?
    Then I will assume that you think the health care legislation is constitutional since it is on the books...
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Oh...wait...wait...you are just speculating they ARENT constitutional cuz you dont like them. You can read them yourself (I almost said 'believe me' but realize...thats silly)...
    I never made any such claim reasonable time,place, and manner restrictions are for the courts to decide not local governments
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    every federal code and law is vetted.
    Again then I will assume you would not argue against the Constitutionality of Obama's Health Care legislation, either that or fess up to the fact that typically some time has to pass before such Constitutionality concerns are discovered and addressed.... EDIT:Also, this is about local law enforcement not federal but w/e.
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    At the end of the day...the police are there to do what they are told by the government leaders. Peaceful protestors (like we keep being told they are) should follow the rules and directions given by said officers. Or DONT. Fight the power. Just dont be shocked when someone tackes a tactical round to the forehead.
    Is there anything the police department could order a citizenry to do that you would not agree with? just curious this is a fairly large blanket statement you just made.
    Last edited by Swit; 10-27-11 at 08:27 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Reckless Disregard doesn't explain the implications in the language from the posts I pointed out.

    Saying you cracked people's skulls open to get them to disperse shows that the act of cracking a skull open was intentional, and had a desired outcome.


    Typical Protester (and/or sympathizer) Dishonesty..........
    "Cracking skulls" is pretty common slang.

    Can you honestly say you've never heard the term used by an officer of the law?

    Or that it means exactly what it sounds like it means?

    I understand your inclination to defend the fraternity, I do. And I think I've been pretty even handed about how the cops have behaved from what I've seen. I give them pretty good marks, actually, overall.

    I think Oakland was a bunch of yahoo bull****. Too much testosterone and action movies. I've actually worked as a volunteer LE liason for the Rainbow Family. Also event work including security. I've dealt with WAY more cops than most people, and IMO police culture has deteriorated severely over the past 30 years. There are WAY too many happy to intimidate and bully. WAY too many that spend WAY too much time in the gym.

    Can you honestly say you've never seen this yourself in other LE officers?

    Civil disobedience MEANS not obeying. Which means actually, actively defying the lawful orders of LE.

    It looked to me like they said clear the area, the protesters refused, then they lined up and advanced with less-than-lethal weapons blazing. Forty years ago they would certainly have been cracking skulls, the most likely point of impact for an overhand nightstick swing.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    An interesting story released yesterday: Occupy Movement Scores Huge Victory in Cleveland After Seeking a Federal Injunction Eliminating Curfew | Cleveland Leader

    Seems the City of Cleavland was able to figure out a better way to deal with this situation.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by Swit View Post
    An interesting story released yesterday: Occupy Movement Scores Huge Victory in Cleveland After Seeking a Federal Injunction Eliminating Curfew | Cleveland Leader

    Seems the City of Cleavland was able to figure out a better way to deal with this situation.

    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    "Cracking skulls" is pretty common slang.

    Can you honestly say you've never heard the term used by an officer of the law?

    Or that it means exactly what it sounds like it means?

    I understand your inclination to defend the fraternity, I do. And I think I've been pretty even handed about how the cops have behaved from what I've seen. I give them pretty good marks, actually, overall.

    I think Oakland was a bunch of yahoo bull****. Too much testosterone and action movies. I've actually worked as a volunteer LE liason for the Rainbow Family. Also event work including security. I've dealt with WAY more cops than most people, and IMO police culture has deteriorated severely over the past 30 years. There are WAY too many happy to intimidate and bully. WAY too many that spend WAY too much time in the gym.

    Can you honestly say you've never seen this yourself in other LE officers?

    Civil disobedience MEANS not obeying. Which means actually, actively defying the lawful orders of LE.

    It looked to me like they said clear the area, the protesters refused, then they lined up and advanced with less-than-lethal weapons blazing. Forty years ago they would certainly have been cracking skulls, the most likely point of impact for an overhand nightstick swing.
    "Slang" if you want to insist that is what is being used here is very similar to a rumor.

    It starts as known slang.... but by the time it gets over to these folks, they are REPORTING in the AP that THIS happened...

    That is why wording a statement is very important, and to word something that shows INTENT TO HARM when the injury was a result of an attempt to control Chaos is hardly honest.

    But the protesters haven't really been very honest lately have they?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Oakland Attacked By Tear Gas, Rubber Bullets, and Flash Grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Helz yes. I have 5 degrees...two advanced...and not a one is in constitutional law, US Code (psssst...just so's ya know...thats where you are most likely to find the actual 'meat' and muscle that details what is laid out in the constitution) and local and state law. Thats why I cede to...you know...the people that ARE and do.
    Jeesshh.. What are you doing on DebatePolitics.com then?
    Im on the interwebs to and i have 7 degrees! I win


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