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Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

Higgins86 said:
what about countries like Sweden, France? What about China??????
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Oh yeah, things are awesome in those countries. You can't even fart too loud, or you'll go to jail. How are things in Greece and Spain?
 
Thunder said:
some of the most successful economies on Earth, implement Socialist ideas.
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The U.S. Post Office
Social Security
Medicare
Obamacare
Public Schools

How they doin' for ya' lately??
 
Paschendale said:
Really? Cuz it works fine on an Israeli Kibbutz. Socialist policies are working quite well in Europe and Canada. Our own socialized systems are doing fine here. It certainly improved things in Cuba. And despite the problems in China, North Korea, and the Soviet Union, life sucked in those places pretty well before they set up military dictatorships and called it communism. Can't say for sure, but life there is still probably better now than it was 100 years ago.

So... no, it hasn't. Not by a long shot.
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The United States is propping up those countries with foreig aid.

It certainly improved things in Cuba.
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Oh yeah! Cuba is a perfect example of a Communist utopia. You sold me! Jonestown was awesome too.
 
MaggieD said:
The U.S. Post Office
Social Security
Medicare
Obamacare
Public Schools

How they doin' for ya' lately??
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Socialist programs work GREAT...especially when you can coerce capitalists to PAY for them...
 
MaggieD said:
The U.S. Post Office
Social Security
Medicare
Obamacare
Public Schools

How they doin' for ya' lately??
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USPS is suffering due to the explosion of email and other electronic communication, UPS, and other electronic communication. it has nothing to do with "socialism".

Obamacare hasn't even been full implemented yet.

many public schools in this country are doing fine, though they have less funding due to property tax decreases.

got any more dishonest comments?
 
PSK said:
Yeah, I'm sure you know more about the Soviet Union than someone who actually lived there.
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I'm sure I know more about certain aspects of the Soviet Union than the average Soviet citizen, yes. But that wasn't the point; the point is that I most definitely know more about socialism than this person.
 
Thunder said:
USPS is suffering due to the explosion of email and other electronic communication, UPS, and other electronic communication. it has nothing to do with "socialism".

Obamacare hasn't even been full implemented yet.

many public schools in this country are doing fine, though they have less funding due to property tax decreases.

got any more dishonest comments?
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  • The USPS is run by the Federal government. It's hemmoraging red ink. DHL found the market changed around it. It went out of business...which is exactly what should happen to the USPS.
  • Medicare is run by the Federal government. It's hemmoraging red ink.
  • Social Security is run by the Federal government. It's hemmoraging red ink.
  • Obamacare is a Socialistic program in the making. It will, in its final form, hemmorage red ink.
  • Public schools waste money from the top down. Inner-city schools are abject failures.

Here'sa big surprise. Property taxes don't go down.

Got any more ostrich comments?
 
VanceMack said:
Socialist programs work GREAT...especially when you can coerce capitalists to PAY for them...
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Yeah, they do, just like capitalism cannot exist without socialist programs in order to foster TRUE competition and take out inherent ineficiencies as well as provide that "American Dream" that we're so famous for.
 
iliveonramen said:
Yeah, they do, just like capitalism cannot exist without socialist programs in order to foster TRUE competition and take out inherent ineficiencies as well as provide that "American Dream" that we're so famous for.
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Haha - ironic, isn't it?
 
So what exactly is your alternative Maggie? No postal service, no Medicare, no Social Security, no Public School system? In your mind, what does the United State look like after we stomp out that evil socialistic policies?
 
iliveonramen said:
Yeah, they do, just like capitalism cannot exist without socialist programs in order to foster TRUE competition and take out inherent ineficiencies as well as provide that "American Dream" that we're so famous for.
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yes...socialism truly enhances capitalism. Capitalism THRIVES in socialist societies right? No...wait...actually...it DOES. Human nature invariably wins out in EVERY socialist commune. The whiny pathetic ****s remain whiny pathetic ****s and the driven and motivated individuals get tired of carrying them.
 
Thunder said:
some of the most successful economies on Earth, implement Socialist ideas.
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The most successful economy, the US, did not implement socialist ideas for a few centuries and we did very well. Now that we have some of that shared community crap in our system our dominance has slowed, if not contracted. You may want to consider a different argument in the future.
 
iliveonramen said:
So what exactly is your alternative Maggie? No postal service, no Medicare, no Social Security, no Public School system? In your mind, what does the United State look like after we stomp out that evil socialistic policies?
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How about a system where services are provided on an "economically viable basis"? I know, that's so alien a concept to you, but the truth is, each of the above you mentioned are central to why we're so far in debt. Roughly 55% of the US Budget goes towards JUST SS, Medicaide and Medicare. It's time to end those programs.
 
Higgins86 said:
what about countries like Sweden, France? What about China??????
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You can't be serious?

We have neighborhoods in Atlanta that are bigger than Sweden. What's your point? A small group of lily white health nuts have decided they like living in a commune so that means it would work well here with 330 million people spread out over a landmass that is 21 times larger than Sweden.

France.......you mean the place that is about to get downgraded? The place that is finding it almost impossible to maintain the social programs it once thought it could afford?

China.......the place that has a GDP per capita income right above Algeria. :lamo
 
MrVicchio said:
How about a system where services are provided on an "economically viable basis"? I know, that's so alien a concept to you, but the truth is, each of the above you mentioned are central to why we're so far in debt. Roughly 55% of the US Budget goes towards JUST SS, Medicaide and Medicare. It's time to end those programs.
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You don't know me so you have no idea what concepts are alien to me.

As far as the things you mentioned, they have provided social stability. I'm sure any firebrand socialists would be fine with ending all social safety nets, before their implementation capitalism was brutal, unapologetic, and getting insanely unpopular.

There's a reason a country like China has a goal of full employment. They have no safety nets, if they have mass unemployment their system collapses.
 
VanceMack said:
yes...socialism truly enhances capitalism. Capitalism THRIVES in socialist societies right? No...wait...actually...it DOES. Human nature invariably wins out in EVERY socialist commune. The whiny pathetic ****s remain whiny pathetic ****s and the driven and motivated individuals get tired of carrying them.
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Sure it does, Capitalism does thrive when there are socialistic policies in place. Mixed economies with market and socialists policies represents every modern economy in the world.
 
iliveonramen said:
Sure it does, Capitalism does thrive when there are socialistic policies in place. Mixed economies with market and socialists policies represents every modern economy in the world.
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Look at pretty much every university in the world...all those corporations spewing socialist rhetoric to the little sponges (who pay out the ass for their 'lessons') who nod their heads like little chihuaha bobble head dogs in the back window...until they graduate from college and want to go to WORK. Suddenly...they dont really live those socialist 'ideals'. Your impression is backward. Capitalism thrives. In many places, they institute socialist policies, sometimes even for the greater good...but make no mistake...capitalism enables socialism...not the other way around.
 
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VanceMack said:
Look at pretty much every university in the world...all those corporations spewing socialist rhetoric to the little sponges (who pay out the ass for their 'lessons') who nod their heads like little chihuaha bobble head dogs in the back window...until they graduate from college and want to go to WORK. Suddenly...they dont really live those socialist 'ideals'. Your impression is backward. Capitalism thrives. In many places, they institute socialist policies, sometimes even for the greater good...but make no mistake...capitalism enables socialism...not the other way around.
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Socialistic policies are normally championed at the bottom. This idea that a large bottom rung in a society will continue to nickel and dime their way through life living in poverty is interesting because that's never been the case. Order is good for commerce, continuity are good for commerce, disparity and widespread poverty are not good for either order or continuity.
 
Paschendale said:
Just because the Russians failed abysmally to implement a socialist system hardly means that everyone else would do the same. The USSR took a fascist military dictatorship and tried to dress it up like socialism. In 1918, they went directly from centuries of aristocracy and monarchy to an attempt at democracy that was actually controlled by military interests. They had no notion of securing freedoms and a supreme law that no one, not even the nation's leaders, could break. They didn't have a tradition of freedom and liberty to base their new system on. They had a tradition of tyranny and oppression, and that's what their new idea was modeled after.

Conversely, in the United States, we already presume that a supreme law, protected freedoms, and open elections are fundamental. A socialist system in this country would look nothing like the Soviet one. It would be rooted in the principals of the American republic.

To suggest that every socialist system would look like the USSR would be like suggesting that every democratic system would look like South Korea or India. Here's a hint, they don't have a lot of the civil rights we have. They'll railroad an accused suspect, torture a confession out of them, and seldom give someone a truly fair trial. They also limit freedoms of speech and the press.

I would say that it is this woman who does not know what she is talking about, or rather that is overextending her experiences and does not realize that a military dictatorship is a terrible system no matter how you dress it up. Whether it calls itself socialism like the USSR or China, or calls itself democratic like Congo, it's still a fascist, military regime. American socialists do not call for a military takeover of the country. A socialist United States would look nothing like the USSR. To think otherwise is to completely fail to understand why the USSR operated the way it did.
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The message is bull****, it's those that 'like' the post that I'd like to give special notice to.
 
Carefully read these words, folks:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I now have to ask. Is there anything more socialist than these words???
 
Middleground said:
Carefully read these words, folks:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I now have to ask. Is there anything more socialist than these words???
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So forming Unions, establishing justice, ensuring domestic peace and providing common defense are socialist agendas?

Here I thought socialism centered around putting the main means of production and ownership squarely in cooperative quarters.

Boy oh boy - have I been wrong :roll:
 
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