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Thread: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

  1. #41
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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Many economists believe that the boom/bust cycle is NOT intrinsic to capitalism, but rather that it is caused by the intervention in and manipulation of money and credit to push interest rates away from (lower than) their equilibrium level. The current recession, they would say, is yet another example of this phenomenon, as it was preceded by a years of inflationary monetary policy and low interest rates.

    Definitely not capitalism.
    We have had boom and bust cycles long before any widespread government intervention into economic matters. These economists should read some history.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    We have had boom and bust cycles long before any widespread government intervention into economic matters.
    Interesting. Can you provide an example of what you're talking about?

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Economic Freedom Index

    1 Hong Kong
    2 Singapore
    3 Australia
    4 New Zealand
    5 Switzerland
    6 Canada
    7 Ireland
    8 Denmark
    9 United States
    10 Bahrain
    11 Chile
    12 Mauritius
    13 Luxembourg
    14 Estonia
    15 The Netherlands


    List of Countries by GDP Per Capita

    1 Qatar
    2 Luxembourg
    3 Singapore
    4 Norway
    5 Brunei
    6 United Arab Emirates
    7 United States
    Hong Kong
    8 Switzerland
    9 Netherlands
    10 Australia
    11 Austria
    12 Ireland
    13 Canada
    14 Kuwait
    15 Sweden
    16 Iceland
    17 Denmark
    18 Belgium
    19 Germany
    20 Taiwan (Republic of China)





    huh, that's interesting... there appears to be some overlap.... hey, where's Cuba? North Korea? Venezuela?
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-26-11 at 10:07 AM.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    The last example of socialism, surely, was in 1918/19, under War conditions? There can't be many people who have seen it and can still manage to write.
    Ever heard of Cuba? North Korea? All those little insiduous countries that have socialism?
    Want to see how the citizens are doing?
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Just because the Russians failed abysmally to implement a socialist system hardly means that everyone else would do the same. The USSR took a fascist military dictatorship and tried to dress it up like socialism. In 1918, they went directly from centuries of aristocracy and monarchy to an attempt at democracy that was actually controlled by military interests. They had no notion of securing freedoms and a supreme law that no one, not even the nation's leaders, could break. They didn't have a tradition of freedom and liberty to base their new system on. They had a tradition of tyranny and oppression, and that's what their new idea was modeled after.

    Conversely, in the United States, we already presume that a supreme law, protected freedoms, and open elections are fundamental. A socialist system in this country would look nothing like the Soviet one. It would be rooted in the principals of the American republic.

    To suggest that every socialist system would look like the USSR would be like suggesting that every democratic system would look like South Korea or India. Here's a hint, they don't have a lot of the civil rights we have. They'll railroad an accused suspect, torture a confession out of them, and seldom give someone a truly fair trial. They also limit freedoms of speech and the press.

    I would say that it is this woman who does not know what she is talking about, or rather that is overextending her experiences and does not realize that a military dictatorship is a terrible system no matter how you dress it up. Whether it calls itself socialism like the USSR or China, or calls itself democratic like Congo, it's still a fascist, military regime. American socialists do not call for a military takeover of the country. A socialist United States would look nothing like the USSR. To think otherwise is to completely fail to understand why the USSR operated the way it did.
    Russia and the US were very different countries, so I agree that a socialist US will be very different from what we've seen at the Soviet Union.
    However, people can't ignore the fact that most socialist countries tend not to succeed
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Russia and the US were very different countries, so I agree that a socialist US will be very different from what we've seen at the Soviet Union.
    However, people can't ignore the fact that most socialist countries tend not to succeed
    A socialist US would be like the one we have now - but with even more people reliant on the government hand and charity.

    What they're going to end up with is another effort to 'house the unhoused' in places - almost like a new version of Cabrini Green. When you give people who can't care for the selves something they must care for - they tend to destroy it. . . and that's just one aspect: physical occupancy.

    Do these people really want that?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    These are typically dumb, as the former Soviet citizen has no idea what they're talking about.
    Yeah, I'm sure you know more about the Soviet Union than someone who actually lived there.
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    Russia and the US were very different countries, so I agree that a socialist US will be very different from what we've seen at the Soviet Union.
    However, people can't ignore the fact that most socialist countries tend not to succeed
    sure they can. being a socialist in a free market economy means never having to own up to the inevitable results of your preferred policies.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    A socialist US would be like the one we have now - but with even more people reliant on the government hand and charity.

    What they're going to end up with is another effort to 'house the unhoused' in places - almost like a new version of Cabrini Green. When you give people who can't care for the selves something they must care for - they tend to destroy it. . . and that's just one aspect: physical occupancy.

    Do these people really want that?
    As long as they get free food, free shelter, free everything with no responsibility attached.
    Instead of trying to get a job, all they do is complain about not getting jobs. I can sympathize with the reason why they're protesting, but not their actions and their goals.
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    As long as they get free food, free shelter, free everything with no responsibility attached.
    Instead of trying to get a job, all they do is complain about not getting jobs. I can sympathize with the reason why they're protesting, but not their actions and their goals.
    Those that are protesting about the influence banks and corporations have on politicians should take it up with the politicians. Im sure they can squeeze in a 5 minute appointment between the $5.5k and $35.5k lunch and fundraiser hosted by the bankers and brokers from say...2:25 to 2:30? Since it will only be 5 minutes...they should only charge them about $300 a person but dont expect anything more than whats on the dollar menu.

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