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Thread: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Did anyone let him know that there are major fundamental differences between Communism and Socialism?

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    I don't imagine that many Americans have lived in a socialist community. I have, and it wasn't a bit like that: it was very unselfish and decent, as I recall.
    And at the community level is the largest level it can exist at.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Socialism has failed everytime it's been attempted.


    what about countries like Sweden, France? What about China??????
    Last edited by Higgins86; 10-25-11 at 07:33 PM.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Socialism has failed everytime it's been attempted.
    Really? Cuz it works fine on an Israeli Kibbutz. Socialist policies are working quite well in Europe and Canada. Our own socialized systems are doing fine here. It certainly improved things in Cuba. And despite the problems in China, North Korea, and the Soviet Union, life sucked in those places pretty well before they set up military dictatorships and called it communism. Can't say for sure, but life there is still probably better now than it was 100 years ago.

    So... no, it hasn't. Not by a long shot.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Breitbart.tv » Former Soviet Citizen Confronts Socialists At #OccupyWallStreet

    "I'm speaking from personal experience....you have no idea what you're talking about."
    It's a good thing that democratic socialism is nothing like communism then, and that the Occupiers aren't even supporting either communism or democratic socialism.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    what about countries like Sweden, France? What about China??????
    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Really? Cuz it works fine on an Israeli Kibbutz. Socialist policies are working quite well in Europe and Canada. Our own socialized systems are doing fine here. It certainly improved things in Cuba. And despite the problems in China, North Korea, and the Soviet Union, life sucked in those places pretty well before they set up military dictatorships and called it communism. Can't say for sure, but life there is still probably better now than it was 100 years ago.

    So... no, it hasn't. Not by a long shot.
    Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but Socialism, as I understand it, is a society in which the means of production are owned by the society. With that definition, none of those exemplary societies were actually socialist.

    First, the Israeli Kibbutz was probably the closest thing to socialism, but there is a big difference between a successful commune of a handful of people and a society of millions. Also, the Kibbutz have recently been undergoes privatization due to numerous bankruptcies from poorly thought-out loans. This is a poor model for success.

    One problem I have with die-hard socialists (and I don't necessarily mean you; I'm generalizing) is that they believe the philosophy is sound, but the implementation is poor. I can't count the number of times that people have told me "oh, socialism will work, but everything that's been tried up until now isn't actually socialism." To that I respond, "so is Socialism all or nothing? Does it completely fail unless it's a perfect implementation? If so, I don't want that as our system."

    Furthermore, it's disingenuous to attribute all the successes those countries have had to socialism. China, for example, was a horrible third-world country until they completely revamped their economic system to be one of the most open capitalistic systems in the world. Look at how China is doing now! The success of China is not the success of Communism, or socialism, but rather the success of Capitalism. The same can be said of any "socialist" country today. Economically, socialism is a stranglehold on growth, and the success of the world economy today is due to capitalism.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Breitbart.tv » Former Soviet Citizen Confronts Socialists At #OccupyWallStreet

    "I'm speaking from personal experience....you have no idea what you're talking about."
    More fear mongering from Breitbart.


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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    good thing the OWS aren't advocating for Soviet-style Socialism.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Just because the Russians failed abysmally to implement a socialist system hardly means that everyone else would do the same. The USSR took a fascist military dictatorship and tried to dress it up like socialism. In 1918, they went directly from centuries of aristocracy and monarchy to an attempt at democracy that was actually controlled by military interests. They had no notion of securing freedoms and a supreme law that no one, not even the nation's leaders, could break. They didn't have a tradition of freedom and liberty to base their new system on. They had a tradition of tyranny and oppression, and that's what their new idea was modeled after.

    Conversely, in the United States, we already presume that a supreme law, protected freedoms, and open elections are fundamental. A socialist system in this country would look nothing like the Soviet one. It would be rooted in the principals of the American republic.

    To suggest that every socialist system would look like the USSR would be like suggesting that every democratic system would look like South Korea or India. Here's a hint, they don't have a lot of the civil rights we have. They'll railroad an accused suspect, torture a confession out of them, and seldom give someone a truly fair trial. They also limit freedoms of speech and the press.

    I would say that it is this woman who does not know what she is talking about, or rather that is overextending her experiences and does not realize that a military dictatorship is a terrible system no matter how you dress it up. Whether it calls itself socialism like the USSR or China, or calls itself democratic like Congo, it's still a fascist, military regime. American socialists do not call for a military takeover of the country. A socialist United States would look nothing like the USSR. To think otherwise is to completely fail to understand why the USSR operated the way it did.
    Why is it that all of you that DO know alllll about socialism arent out there creating your socialist utopia...you know...the RIGHT way? "Socialists" usually are commonly found on college campuses, where mommy and daddy pay their bills and their professors preach on from the ultimate corporation...'higher education.' Lord I wish people would stop talking about it, go buy a ****ing commune somewhere and show us all the 'right' way.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Why is it that all of you that DO know alllll about socialism arent out there creating your socialist utopia...you know...the RIGHT way? "Socialists" usually are commonly found on college campuses, where mommy and daddy pay their bills and their professors preach on from the ultimate corporation...'higher education.' Lord I wish people would stop talking about it, go buy a ****ing commune somewhere and show us all the 'right' way.
    Well, to be fair, I don't see very many capitalist utopias out there either.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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